Learn from these real life extramarital affair coaching scenarios.
In the first section the person struggling with the marital infidelity summarizes the scenario or concern and what he/she would like to say to his/her cheating spouse.
I then outline some goals that help him/her break free from the affair.
The last and important section gets at shifting the focus away from the spouse/partner to him/her self. In other words, what does all this mean for the person on the receiving end of an extramarital affair? After that mental shift (which is NOT easy for someone in the pain and turmoil of perhaps losing one’s spouse, family, and home) I, the coach, offer phrases that he/she can relay to his/her spouse in a way that speaks directly of his/her concern and has the best chance of being heard and getting positive results.
Section 1: The “offended spouse” says:
I used to focus on what mood is he in, is he going to talk to me today, is he going to look/act like he’d rather be anywhere else with anyone else other than me. This habit/pattern is hard to break, but I’m working on it. I was so hurt and rejected that sometimes in my depression that I didn’t leave the house for days. All this in an attempt to figure out how to be okay with my life and how lonely I was. This was his excuse for his affair (“if you thought it was bad being that way, you have no idea how hard it is to live with a person like that” – thoughtful words from him after I learned of his affair). I’ve been figuring out “what makes me happy” as friends refer to it, but that seems selfish and that’s just not me. I’m learning how much living like that has affected the simplist of things – mood, attitude, communication and my relationship with our 13 yr old daughter. I wrestled with deciding whether or not to stay in my marriage and even though we’re still living together, I was non-committal and that hasn’t helped things much. But lately, I’ve been getting more clarification. I still don’t have all the answers as for our marriage, but I do know that I’m doing what I’m called to do right now. He has been making changes although I’ve been frustrated that they’re not the ones I think he should be doing. I realized that he’s trying and doing the best he can and I’ve not acknowledged the changes that he has made and that tears down the very thing that I said that I wanted. Regardless of where this leads, I’m ready to move forward with my life. He has an opportunity to rise higher in his life and our relationship and if he’s unable, I can accept that, but I know with all my heart that I need more than that and I love him enough to let him go. Otherwise, it’ll continue to tear us down as individuals and as a couple. That to me would be unforgivable – to intentionally choose that. I’ve finally forgiven him and I’m excited to be able to share that with him when I see him (he’s working 4 hrs away for a couple of weeks). I believe it’s a gift that both of us need and it’s necessary for healing regardless of whether we stay together or not. In addition to asking him to forgive me for where I fell short in our relationship, I’ve finally forgiven myself. The reality is that he made some wrong decision(s), but as painful as all of this has been (this was his second affair), I’m grateful for the opportunities that it’s opened in my heart. There’s great power in “pressing on” and getting through. I’ll even go as far as to say that I’m starting to determine my call and purpose in life. I don’t have the specifics yet, but I know that my past experiences were not given to me just to keep them inside and hide them away (survival of growing up in physical, emotional and verbal abuse, death of my child at age 7, two abusive ex husbands, battling depression, etc). I believe they can help others too. I’ve always believed that, I just lost sight of it. I’m excited to see how all of this unfolds. Well, I know you didn’t ask for a book, but I’ve never been one short on words.
Section 2: Personal goals suggested by the coach:
- Welcome your sensitivity. Learn ways to use it, especially with others.
- Examine, reflect, write down the “themes?? of your life that you are internally addressing when “depressed.??
- Congratulate your self on your tremendous growth and progress.
- Be very specific on the changes you want from him.
- List 5 factors that “hold you back?? from him.
- List 6 of your greatest personal needs. (Check out the needless program on my site)
- Continue working hard on defining your life’s purpose.
Section 3: What the affair means for the “offended spouse” and what he/she REALLY wants to say to his spouse/partner having the affair:
- I’m working hard on me, and boy, does that feel good. Also very exciting. But, I’m not sure, sometimes, where that leaves me with you.
- I want for us to have a richer relationship but it seems there has been so much pain and hurt, on both of our parts, that I wonder, what that means for our future.
- I have some very specific needs that I would like you to meet. But, I know this can be very tricky and rather scary. For example, I would like ____________. If you can do that, great. If not, help me understand what gets in the way. Maybe just give it some thought first, and we can get at it later.
What is your situation? Describe your situation. Let it flow. Don’t hold back. Then, ask yourself, “What does this marital mean for ME?” What impact does his/her extramarital affair have on my feelings, thoughts and actions? Then rehearse approaching your spouse/partner with phrases that convey the meaning and impact of the infidelity for YOU.
Sandy,
I think it helps me greatly to know I am not alone, and neither are you and eveyone else on this blog. All these cheaters are so alike.
I was so sad today just thinking about my kids and how innocent they are. I dread the day they find out about their dad, and what he is made of. Thing is, my dad did the same thing and honestly, I think he has a lot of regrets. My mom said he cries a lot about his infidelities and how it hurt their marriage and us kids.
I don’t know, maybe it takes people a long time to reflect on their life and they realize they jeapordized the one true person that loved them unconditionally. That’s my dream at least, to think it effects some of them. I know not all of them but on some level don’t you think if you are human, it has to?
She sounds like a real case! My H’s OP, a real winner….. never would have pegged her as the person he would cheat with. Don’t get it, never will.
Well, I will post after our trip this weekend. Should be quite interesting!
Hi all, just catching up with your posts. I am in a very bad state at the moment. He cheated with the OP again and I called the lawyer to file for divorce on the 27th. He of course came running home, crying, please just don’t file blah, blah, blah. I called the OP and told her a bunch of stuff she didn’t know and that he was lying to her about and she confronted him and he told her I was telling the truth and she told him to go blow! Ha! What a crock! Anyway, he is off at a hotel “thinking”. I am here taking it day by day and not sure that I just won’t go ahead with the divorce anyway. I am planning to go to Florida for a week to see my sister at the end of the month. I also told my parents about the affair, as I was going to divorce him so I thougth they should know. That was the biggest thing, so now that’s over I just have to really tell my kids and then the next step is just making the divorce happen. Not sure what I am going to do. Anyway, I am keeping up with you all. Take care, Mari
Mari,
That took allot of courage to call the OP, I never did that but she called my cell phone and I never told him. She left me a message one day it was only two words, not nice either but that’s what she is just sludge from the bottom of the barrel. What was her reacton to the call from you? I wish you the best, I don’t know long this has been going with you but hang in there you will know when it is the right time to make your final decision and it is all up to you he is the one that made the fatal error in your relationship. How old are your children? I would never myself say anything to your children by yourself I think it should come from both of you together to let them know they will always be loved and cared for, it’s very hard on the kids to hear it from one parent. Just my thoughts. He should be a bigger man about this since this was his doing and not yours you are just trying to survive the best you can and I understand that. I think if you told your kids all this by yourself and then what if it works out for you both what are they going to think about thier Dad down the road. I think that breeds other things if they are old enough to understand but if they are not I would say nothing. To much pain all the way around for everyone. I Thank God everyday mine are grown and have thier own lives.
Liz,
Read what I said to MS (Mari) I don’t know if that will give you some other insight or not they are just my thoughts. Hope you had a nice weekend and all went well. You are right they are all so much alike it’s as if they attended the same schools on being a cheating partner, they all seem to say the same stuff maybe a little different but the same. I think they have learned to justify what they did to themselves/us/her no matter what and it will always be the person who is the closest to them that they blame. No matter what happens it is a no win for everyone involved, we feel betrayed, OP feels betrayed if they come home to stay. He is coming home and I bet she is wondering now what I have done to make this happen, I know that also. I did not do what she thought I would do she thought I would pack up and go but I believed somewhere in my heart she would do herself in and that’s what has happened here. Her true colors finally came out and he did not like what he saw. He will never admitt that to her but he did to me, when he said, “I made a bad mistake sorry it took me so long to find out”, that tells me something came to pass between them that was not a good thing.
Had a great day I am going shopping for me.
Hi MS – so sorry to hear that but it sounds as if you need to take some action and that you are doing so – hope that your trip will bring you some distance, both physically and emotionally, so that you get a break from all this
MS – Hi, how did you find out he was seeing the OP again? Did he get “sloppy” or did you have that same gut intuition once again and follow up on your own? I am just waiting for the bomb to drop again on my end. I think my H is lying also about “no contact” and here is just one example of why I think this:
Back in Septemeber I contacted her and told her I knew they went on a trip together. Gave her all the details, that he provided as well. This was shortly after he supposedly ended it with her for the “second time”. I wasn’t what you would call “nice” on the phone with her either. I had some choice words about what she did to my family, her lack of respect, etc.
Now, if you had an affair with a married man, and he abruptly ended it with you, and his wife called you on the phone and told you that she was aware of this, would you then call the married man? I think YES!! Human nature! My friends think so too. What OP would say to themselves, “oh, I better not call him, he said we can’t have anymore contact”……please. She just got chewed out by his wife who told her she knew details of the affair (that she never thought would surface!) I know in my heart she got right on her cell phone and called him! He denies this, OF COURSE! He claims “no contact” still. Maybe there is a 1% chance he’s telling the truth, but after all I’ve been through, I don’t buy it for a second.
I know this is hard for you because I filed TWICE and dropped both. I know it was becuase of my kids. They tear me up inside with all of this. I know I have to make this decision for ME and not them, but it’s sooooo much easier said than done!! I am glad you are going away! He’s in a hotel room THINKING? Gosh, I love it. I love how it takes the big “D” for them to panic and THINK! My H did the same thing, cried when I filed, he was in a tailspin. Problem is, I thought the tears were for ME but now after much therapy, I think the tears were for HIM. I think they were more about frustration that he got caught, screwed up HIS life (not mine or the kids, or he wouldn’t have risked US so badly in the first place for his own gratification). I see him in such a different light. I like ME more than him anyday of the week now. The OP, well she’s just pathetic and heartless to me. They make a great moral pair. UGH.
How did you parents react to the news about the affair? I told mine the exact day I found out. In fact, I told the world. I didn’t care. I was soooooo mad. My parents are “done” with him. He apologized to them the first time and told them he was 100% committed to their daughter and would never do it again……….he called the OP the next week, and started right back up……needless to say, they are “done”
Please keep us posted. I am thinking about you!
I think there is something that drives them to do what they do a second time. They don’t want to give it up in one way and don’t know how to stay away either.
He was to long in the relationship with the OP (2 years)and you can’t stop it, I know I can’t. After all the, I made a mistake crap he got home at 10:30 and I said late night and he went off. Did not have the smell of her all over him like before but something came to pass and I have no idea what happened but something went down he was angry and agitated. So in my mind he knew he did something wrong at least that is how I took it as it was portrayed. As I said before I was not expecting much of this, I was hoping but I guess things are just the way they are and I will leaving as soon as it all sells and press on with my life. This is a day to day thing with him it’s just not fair to either of us and I can’t put stock in a liar and a cheater, it’s not worth the mental effort and neither is he. I guess I knew deep down that this would happen again just did not want to believe it, I wanted so much to believe in him. Foolish me!
Planning on having a good day of it shopping with friends and lunch.
Best to everyone.
Sandy,
I think that maybe they seem to go through it a second time when in reality they never gave it up to begin with. My H was hopeful every time he said goodbye to the OP that this time would be the last time. I think that until they know “what it was all about” they can’t leave it for once and for all.
We are not foolish for being forgiving and hopeful! Unfortunately for us, we do not know the whole story until it plays itself out.
Have fun shopping!
Sandy and Nicki –
I agree with what both of you are saying. I think some of it has to do with control. I think they are not going to let their spouse dictate when and how the relationship will end. Do you agree? I think they want to do it on their own terms, not being forced into it. Even though they should have no leg to stand on in the matter!! Turn it around on them, how would they like it if we kept it up after we said it was “over”? They would lose it!!
Last night was interesting with us. I had a phone conversation with him at lunch. I was at the end of my rope and told him that he should go move in with the OP. He goes, “stop talking ridicilious! it has been long over and I wouldnt’ be here if I didnt’ want to be!”….so I basically told him that I’ve come to the conclusion after a lot of thinking that they both would be perfect for each other. They both have no consideration of children and other people. They both don’t value marriage. They both are selfish and liars, and they both don’t care who they hurt in the process! I told him I feel really good about me as a person, I am a kind, stong human being that cares about family, marriage and people and that I would have no problem finding someone for myself! Needless to say, he was quite speechless. Then, when I got home, he had to leave to play on his card league. While he was gone, I was on the phone with freinds and my mom and he tried to call but the line was busy…..so he left messages on my cell phone. All about how much he loves, me and can’t wait to see me and talk to me. When he came home, he was all apologetic and told me he loved me, blah, blah, blah. He seemed really upset and wanted to talk. (funny how it’s OK when he needs to talk!)….and I basically told him that he needs to fix a lot of his damage, or I am gone. Done. He totally fessed up that he thought it would all “work itself out” and I told him life doesn’t work that way. When you hurt people, it takes making ammends to them, apologies, explanations. Things don’t just get shoved under a rug and everything bounces back to normal. He finally agreed and seems genuine about fixing things…so time will tell!!
Do you think I handled it OK, or was I out of line?? Thoughts welcome!
Well done Liz… I think you handled the situation well. I hope we get to the stage where I can say something similar to my h. I think it is all a matter of timing so it has the right effect. I hope he starts to open up to you. I had an overwhelming feeling that something was not right the last few days and couldn’t bring myself to say anything. I called him at work today just to say how I was feeling, he said that everything is fine just has a few work issues on his mind. Things have been really good and sometimes I get so anxious that something is going to happen to spoil it all. We still don’t talk about what happened and maybe it is all a bit raw still but I have a few unanswered questions that would put me at ease.
Liz – excellent job, in my opinion!I remember when my h and I were talking during the time when he was trying to explain why he felt that he had to stay in touch to be sure she was okay, etc. He said something about not wanting to be cruel – I said “this is what happens when this happens – someone walks away hurt” He tried so hard to escape that reality – like she was just going to graciously withdraw and assure him that she would be just fine – she actually did tell him that at the end, mostly just for spite – which frankly was fine with me – and she is okay, that I know from various sources – so that’s another lesson, she didn’t curl up and die because he said goodbye
Jessi – I know exactly what you mean about things going well!! Over the summer, we would have days that were really, really good when we were trying to “work it out” and in marraige counseling. We would go on picnics and dates, etc….and then, come to find out….he was STILL cheating all along! That is why I am sooooo shellshocked when things go well. I always think in the back of my mind, it’s a sham! And, they did this to us! They put this seed of doubt in our brains. It’s not our fault, it’s theirs. I am so afraid of getting “burned” again, I can’t enjoy things normally. Like even all during the holidays this year, I was waiting to find out he had secret contact behind my back. I just couldn’t enjoy the moments. So, I totally understand where you are coming from! And the worst part, is will we ever be totally trusting and comfortable with our spouses again after an affair? My fear is no. I want to believe it, but I am just not “there” yet. Oh well, at least we are not alone in this!
Marlene – My H would say the same things like, “I am hurting two people”, or “she always had hope” blah, blah, blah! Any woman that dates a married man, is setting herself up HUGE for a big fall! They knowingly date someone married to another person and I feel no sympathy for them! So, have you heard from other sources that his OP has moved on? See, I don’t have the OP in my circle at all, so I have no clue what state of mind she’s in, or if she’s moved on, etc…part of me could care LESS and the other part is curious if she’s still wanting him. I wish I had a clue! Ha!
I think becuase my “D” day is approaching in 2 months time, I am starting to feel some things really opening up again. I know it’s becuase of the time of year, and I associate it with their lies, etc….ugh. Did you pass your D day, and was it OK? I think you did but I am not sure if I remember correctly!
Oh my. Liz…that was perfect! lol I did that same thing! After finding my H was googling apartments and jobs near her, I told my H quite calmly that he needed to move in to an apartment near her, find a job near her and the two of them need to work it out. (she lives in a different state, btw) I was so calm when I said it that his reply was, ” Is this a test?” hahaha…goodness gracious!
Jessi–you know I think you are right. We can try and plan what we are going to do or say, but timing is everything. You will know what to say when the time comes and all you have to do is open your mouth and it just flows!
Marlene–are you dancer on the other board? If you are, you wrote the most amazing post over there today about confrontation of the OP. I don’t want to paraphrase it b/c I wouldn’t do it justice. Is there a way to do a cut and paste so we have it here too?
Nicki – what is it under on the other post? I want to read it!
I think that’s great what you told your H too!! I think they really flip when we basically tell them to “go for it”. One time during the summer, in one of our marriage counseling sessions, he blurted out in an angry tone, “I wanted you to fight for me!”…it just came out of his mouth. So, it was TRUE, he really didn’t want the OP over me, he wanted me to pay attention to him, the way that she did! Maybe I am wrong, but I really think it was more about losing control of me than anything. When we tell them to go for it, it doesn’t seem so special does it? The fantasy dies and we are telling them to go live with a real, living, breathing human being that comes with their own baggage, problems, insecurites, etc. and I really wonder sometimes if I WANT her to have the “prize”. I feel like going out and finding my own “prize” that doesn’t lie and cheat…ugh.
I am in a pretty good mood tonight, entertaining myself basically! Ha!
take care!
Liz,
I just went to the other site to try and verify which board it’s on and it seems that all the posts from today are missing. I am pretty sure it was under the “Obstacles I am overcoming board”.
Hi all – yes I am dancer on the other site and same thing happened to me this morning – it didn’t have any posts past the 11th of March – so I can’t even pull up what I wrote there and paste it here – but if this is what you are referring to, here is what I recall that I wrote:
First of all I advised someone to not confront the OP as a way of now “proving” that she isn’t as nonconfrontational as she thinks she has been all her life – if she needs to confront, do it, but don’t do it just to prove something – then I said that I don’t know if I will ever have or take the opportunity to talk to the OP but if I did here is what I would say:
“You did to me what no woman should ever do to another woman – whether she knows her or not. I know that you have had problems but you have set a terrible example for xxxx(her daughter, whose name I know) about how to deal with problems – I pity her when she finds out what you did – and she will – not from me, because I am not into messing up other people’s lives, but sooner or later, she will find out”
as far as passing my D date, yes I did, on Feb 16th – fortunately I had a therapy appt. the next day – it wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be – I just tried to focus on the positive and that helped – we are coming up this Fri on a very old anniversary for us – 42 years ago on March 16th we started going steady in high school – we go out with friends on Fridays and will be there this week as usual – he and I both mentioned it to them last week so I know it’s in his head – what I hope is NOT in his head is that I believe that they have an anniversary of sorts on the 18th -the love poem I found while I was snooping last year was dated 3/18(it was written in 2005) then last year, March 18th was of course after my discovery and confrontation but I recalled the date and sure enough found a letter from him, again dated 3/18/06, to her saying what a wonderful person she is, what an impact she had made on his life and that he does miss her and will always love her (he said that she asks him that frequently when they talk), etc. So I know that date means something to them.
As far as her moving on…no I don’t think she has a BF or anything – but I have seen her and she looks just fine and am aware that she has a number of friends and family who support her – right now she needs a job and is still, as far as I know, looking for one – since she subbed as a secretary at the Board of Ed office for a number of years I am hoping that something DOES NOT get offered to her there because as the teacher union president, he has to go there from time to time. As luck would have it, one of my old friends ended up taking the job of Director of Special Ed and his office is in that building so I always have an excuse to go there and check it out – so far she has not been there – I too would like some confirmation that she is “done” so I keep my sources open
I totally get what you are saying Jessi – that little devil on my shoulder comes out and says, “yeah he is acting differently toward you and nothing seems to be going on but suppose it is all an act? – suppose he is just better at disguising and covering up?” It’s tough but in the absence of hard evidence, which I have always been able to collect, it’s also hard to accuse or confront – he doesn’t even take his personal cell phone with him anymore and that is on purpose – that was the phone they used to communicate – he is not too swift when it comes to technology so when I check his business cell I can see all calls – I honestly think he has no clue how to delete calls from his phone – also, that bill goes to the union treasurer so he would have to account for calls – he deliberately shops in a grocery store in a different town now because he knows that she knows his habits – so I have nothing to hang my hat on nor am I getting funky vibes but it is hard to not be suspicious and I am hoping that time will help
Marlene- and All!
Last night I was lying in bed thinking about something, this past summer was my cousin’s wedding and I had been looking real forward to going. When we reconciled the first time, we didn’t go becuase he would be uncomfortable around my parents at the wedding. So, we stayed home and went on a “date”. I really was bummed that I missed the wedding, but I declined for “US”. I didn’t go “solo” but looking back, I should have!
I was thinking that he went to a wedding with the OP in September, of people he didn’t know, friends at her work. For some reason, things like this just don’t get better in my head. The “inequity” of the whole thing is the worst. I know if this is going to work between us, I have to “let it go” to a degree, but I cannont. Not now. It’s like his just being here isn’t enough. I need him to go “above and beyond” just “being here”. Even if he isn’t cheating anymore like he claims, I still need him to make this nightmare up to me tenfold, or I don’t think this is the person I want to be married to anymore. I need a proactive guy.
Maybe today is just another “thinking day” where I need to vent. I don’t know, tomorrow is my birthday, and I don’t want to be let down by him, but if Valentine’s Day is any indication, I think it will be a letdown. I will keep you posted!
Liz–I know what you mean for sure! And you need to think away!! lol What it boils down to when the dust settles is us asking ourselves “What do I need to have in a marriage/relationship?”
Do you think that we have become so accustomed to putting their needs first (and the kids, and our families, and, and…) that we no longer know who we are, what we must have, what we wanted at the beginning, and how to go about getting what we want and need.
It’s a good start knowing what we don’t want though! That will go a long way towards answering the other questions.
Thinking is
Nicki – I think you are so right! And, don’t you think the affair honestly puts you in shock mode for a long time? And it takes a while to figure out if this person is “worth it”?
I also read be careful of the honeymoon stage after reconciliation and that the old problems will resurface. That’s where I feel we are at. I feel like there is not a strong enough foundation upon to which to build!!
I think it boils down to respect and trust. Of which, I’ve lost both. How on Earth do you stay married to someone minus those two qualities? I guess it’s possible but I really think the person who had the affair has to go above and beyond. And if you need to talk, they have to let you talk. If they don’t they are just making you resentful even more. My H doesn’t understand this. He thinks talking about it doesn’t “benefit” me. I think the opposite, It doesn’t “benefit” him.
Liz– My H and I went round and round on the talking thing. I totally agree about the shock mode (it’s like having an out of body experience!) I finally figured out that each time I ask, I am asking for a different reason. I have so much to process that it’s almost like I am a different person every time I ask. (and I hear something differently each time as a result) He indulges me now even though he will always add, “And you are SURE this is helping you?” LOL
Actually, I reached a point a few weeks ago where I felt like I had all the information I needed to know. It was like a wave of relief that came over! I could finally feel I have all the information I need to know and can now set about to figure out what I need to do with this information.
Now it’s only mild curiosity, immaterial, info that’s left (and what were you wearing and what was she wearing type stuff…lol)
I made his getting therapy a non-negotiable part of our process. I need to know why he did what he did, he needs to know why it happened, etc., and I am not the one who can help sort that out. The minute he stops therapy, I file. (and he knows this) So, to a large extent the outcome and a large amount of effort to help us heal in his hands.
I’m still here, and some days that’s about as much as I can muster. But considering how easy it would have been to bail out, that is saying something and he knows it!
Hi Nicki-
Wow, my H said the same thing about, “how can this talking possibly help you!?” and then he would tell me that I was “torturing myself and I needed to “focus” (if I hear that one more time to focus, I am gonna scream!).
And I agree with you, yes I need to go over it at different “angles”. He keeps telling me that he’s answered all my questions and that I just am not satisfied with the answers he gives me. Maybe not. Maybe because I don’t think they are 100% truthful. I think he sugarcoats a lot of things to make it seem less serious than it was.
I am on the brink of filing. I think it’s awful but I also am getting OK with it too. I think I married a guy I thought I knew. And when he didn’t quit the affair after I dropped the divorce, I really know in my heart he isn’t up to my “par” if you will.
I think when he said he thought the family would “work itself out” was a big flag also that he had no intention of trying to reconcile it for our kids and me. Again, he’s a coward in my opinion who can’t own up to his mess. He’s not man enough to swallow his pride and admit he was wrong, and hurtful and a liar. I just think I am too hopeful and I keep beating my head against a wall.
Have a good night and I will post tomorrow!
Liz–I assume that “focus” is his code word for “get over it”, right?
I have questioned myself endlessly about why I haven’t filed yet. (am I weak? am I afraid of being alone? am I compromising my integrity by staying and, if so, why would I do that to myself? and…on and on and on!)
I have concluded that I have questions that need answered,and maybe, just maybe, it would be easier, and would expedite my healing, if I hung around long enough to get them.
I don’t even think that the answers will be found in what he says, In fact, I have become rather deaf in that regard. (like watching tv with the sound off) I am watching and evaluating his actions and the meaning behind this words. If that makes sense?
When I feel like he is giving me the best that he’s got (no matter how much or little that may turn out to be), then I will be able to decide if that is enough for me.
Maybe ask him “Is this all you got?” or ask him what his plan is to help heal the relationship. If all he has is “I am waiting for you to fix it” or he implies in his answer that he is hoping a magic wand will be waved then you have more clues.
My H used to think that he was the one good as messing things up and I was the one good at fixing them. All well and good, but there are some messes that I cannot fix and this is one of them. It takes two.
Just my thoughts of the morning :-)
All I can say is that when you afford them the opportunity to leave and they don’t they start thinking about you and what you are going to do. I don’t think he cares enough any longer what I do. No mater what he said he saw her monday night I could feel it and by his actions and attitude. I am just in a bad spot but I am not going to leave just yet if he wants out he’ll have to go and he might who knows. The OP has a hold on him or maybe just to much dirt and he can’t break loose, that I beleive is the case here and she will hold it over him, she has done everything in her power that she can do to me and I am still here and so is he so I don’t know what is going to happen. I believe n my heart this will not work out only because of all that has happened it went on for to long and to much shared with the OP and he is more comfortable with her than with me. I am having a sad day of it I guess it all just totally sunk in that it’s over for us both it’s a no win for anyone.
I will move on and have already as much as I would like this work the dishonesty of it all is beyond my scope of thinking. Planning on a nice life somewhere.
Take care of yourselves it’s the best we can do for ourselves.
Nicki – there are a few code words and “focus” is the big one. Mostly I get, “you are in control, you can decide if you will get over this or not”, or “you have to make a decision at some point in time if and when you will decide to trust me again”
Basically, I feel like he says he is there for me and he will support me but I still feel like he expects me to do this by myself.
Then, he blames me in a round about way for not “letting go”.
Also, about the topic of filing. It’s the exact same thing for me. Somedays I think to myself, “you would NEVER let any one else on this planet lie and deceive you and disregard you this bad!!! So WHY do you let him?”
Am I more insecure than I think? Do I think I will never find anyone else? Or, is there this little hope inside me that he will see the light and make this amazing change? I also think gender plays a huge role. The therapist told me most men (not all! please don’t take this wrong guys)…..have a much more difficult time forgiving an affair. I think it’s becuase of socialization. Women tend to have to be more forgiving and understanding, blah, blah, blah. Do you think that has some truth to it? I think if I did this to HIM it would be world war 3. He’d be gone!!!
Sandy – I have asked him to leave many times! And he refuses to leave! He says, “don’t you think I would have left if I wanted to?” or “I am right where I want to be!”….I love how they think that option is totally secure. Like they can have an OP on the side, and the spouse will allow them to stay forever and have their cake and eat it too!
I am really down today also, maybe it’s just realizing that some OP acutally had a relationship with my husband. It’s the hardest thing to swallow, but I don’t have to tell anyone that!
Hi Nicki – I think it makes a ton of sense to watch their actions rather than listening to what they say – as important as it is to talk, as we have all noted, it is what they do that matters more than anything else – I went through the same questioning – was I sacrificing my integrity, taking the “easy” way out (as if any of this can be called easy) – but what my friend kept telling me was that I could always opt to leave/tell him to leave – that option was always open and frankly it still is if something he does is of such concern that I feel we are done – I still believe that he and I can get by this but only if he is not in contact with her – and I also believe that I am prepped – that if I discover anything now I can walk away – I have given it enough, given him enough chances – the consequences so far of his behaviors have been losing her (if he has done as he said he has and truly cut off communication) – if he goes back on his word he will lose me and our marriage – and it will truly be his doing – so as terrible as an outcome that is, I think that I am at a place where if that is the way it is, it is
I could leave now without many reservations as I see it now they get into this type of life style for whatever reason they justify & cannot give it up in there heads and thier bodies just follow without reason. I don’t think any of them will ever have a clue whay happened to thier partner of many years. It is the worst thing that can happen we loose our self esteem & our integrity in the process because they have beat us down so badly without any thoughts how badly the words hurt. I think that he used me beyond anything for a long time when I did not know what was really going on and everybody else did. He paraded me in public as if to say see what I have my cake and eat it to. After I found out I felt so humiliated and ashamed of myself for being so stupid not to see. I never looked for this in him and I do not feel sorry for myself but I pity him and his sick mind, I do believe thier is brain activity that probably supports this as close to an addiction as you can get. Whatever trips that trigger is powerful to watch someone you have known for many years become a stranger in your home. His total thinking pattern has changed, ideals, morality, life style, attitude and behavior. I doubt if they can remotely come back to the person you once knew. He went to far for to long and I think you are right they do not know how to forgive themselves so it is easier to just continue on thier path of self distuction and they will distruct it’s just a matter of time.
On to have the best day I can have.
Liz, I know what you are saying about the OP and thinking, gee they took so much from us. They don’t know what they took but all the things you use to do as a couple have been misssing here for a long time. Little things like sitting outside looking at the stars with a glass of wine, cooking outdoors together, a walk in a valley, movies, dinner out, interacting with other couples, companionship, talking about your day,cleaning up the yard with a beer after winter and most of all the intimacey they shared with another person and it was’nt you. Our friends are no longer there and that is his fault nobody wants to hear this crap or be around it. They don’t get it!!!Hard to swallow that they gave so much to another person while we sat and waited for them at home like we did. You are right if we would have done this to them we would have been out the door and they would have seen to it so fast it would make your head spin but they cannot relate to this because it is all about them and thier confused little minds, they don’t know what they want and when you afford them the opportunity to leave they look at you like you have lost your mind. They really don’t want anything accept thier cake and eat it to in most cases. I just cannot in my heart believe that he went with the town slut. What’s done is done but she must really feel proud of herself to think that she got such a prize and she got what she wanted from him no doubt about that but he is paying for it now. Hard to clean up your trash when you started the whole thing in the first place. He said to me you don’t have to be mad at her, I told him I’m not mad at her she did not do this to me you did she just went along with what you wanted and you let her and that is your fault not mine. They don’t want to hear that from anyone. They all have a walk on water syndrom, not me it’s all your fault or this would not have happened. They think like spoiled children that have no control of thier actions nor responsibility for what they have done. They can’t or don’t know how to fix what they broke so it’s easier for them to be defiant towards us. They must think we are just plain dumb not to see all things that they have done to us all and they walk off scott free in thier heads. Men are just plain not with the program and the ones that are have a great lives and attitudes, I’d like to meet that one man one day as my choices here were not good, good at the time but now it’s just the way things are. They are insecure people and we are thier blankies!! Hard to figure.
Sandy,
Oh, I couldn’t agree with you more! And mine, I told him he went with the “bottom of the barrel” too. He picked a real winner for an OP! Then I told him, “you had to date her, who else would settle for a married guy and hurt two little kids?” She would! She did! Then I got to thinking to myself, “do I want to be married to a guy, who sacrifices his family for his own self-gratification?” I am pretty much “done”. Still hanging onto to this last bit of hope, but the picture is so much clearer to me everyday that he really IS selfish, and out for HIM and I really think the only remorse he has is that he got CAUGHT. Twice. I told him the other night that he was calculating and deliberate. That he took a “risk” with our marriage and family, and right now, he lost the wager.
I also tried to get him to confess to some more things that I know he did (not actual proof, but in my gut) and he will not come clean. He changes the subject and denies, and tells me it’s not “relavant”. I agree with you that I don’t think we’ll ever get that person we thought we knew back. I think once they have crossed that line so bad, a part of them goes with it for good.
We went to a party the other night with our freinds and I have never seen him act so quiet!! I think he was totally ashamed and embarrased to be around our freinds. Everyone commented to me after the party that he was “not himself”.
I also agree with you they want their cake and eat it too. Totally. I also agree with you there are nice men in the world, who don’t do this thing to their wives. The sadest thing is I wonder how many would turn it down, if they had 100% confidence of not getting caught. It makes me sad becuase the more people I talk to, have a similar story. Which means, A LOT of people are cheating in their marriages at some point in time.
How old is your H and the OP?? I forgot. Does he try to talk you into making it work still?
Well have a good night if possible. I will try too!!!
Good Morning Liz,
He is 53, and the OP is about 20 years his junior. What a disaster she is just out for whatever she can get, she can have it and him too! He said to me the other day over a comment I made, I said “I love this place and how quiet it is out here” he said to me, “you better love it your going to be here a long time”. No other comment so who knows what he is thinking. I think deep down he knows that I am going to leave it just has not totally sunk in with him yet but it will. I believe he is so insecure in himself, now where I got stronger he got weaker and I will move forward it’s just a matter of time. He’s having a problem figuring me out and what I am going to do. Good for Him! I would love to do what he did to me in many ways but I just can’t, moral standards and all that come into play but I will do this in another way. Where do these guys get off thinking they can ruin your life and expect you to forgive and forget like it was a bad dream. They don’t have a clue how women think they are totally selfish people and always will be. Self gratification must be thier total being. They think they are invisable to the public and getting caught was not an option for any of them I don’t think they could see that far into what they were/are doing. They are cunning creatures both men and women who cheat, they lie, cheat, steal from the ones who have loved them and they don’t seem to care. Where is the remorse, they don’t have any because you know they have told you this is all your fault’s we drove them to it or whatever they say. What a scape goat comment is that!!! They just can’t take responsibilty for thier actions and don’t want to.
I have a friend who her husband did the same thing for 3 years, she told me she caught him he stopped seeing the OP and she bided her time to get even. She was really hurt like the rest of us but she did something so different. She made him feel secure at home and catered to his ego and then one day he came home the bank acc’s were cleaned out, house empty, kids gone, dog gone, his suit cases packed in the front yard, house sold and left no forwarding address. He searched for her for years but not a soul would tell him anything and to this day he never found her or the kids. He went off the deep end started drinking lost his great job blamed the OP for everthing that she ruined his life. He could not believe she left him after all those years. She found out from friends and family what happened to him but she never went back, she figured that what goes around comes around just in a different manner for us all. She changed everything and never bothered getting a divorce she assumed he got one. She never did marry again, raised her 2 children put them through college, I know them both fine folks, they now have families of thier own and she is happy. She is in her 60’s now doing what she wants to do and a very vibrant woman. The kids know who their father is and they were old enough at the time to see what happened and they never forgave him for it all. That took allot of nerve to go that far and like many of us we would love to do the same at one time or another. She said it was “Sweet Revenge”. Heck of a story and all true, she gives us all hope in different ways.
Have a nice day.
Hi All!
Sandy,
What a story!!
I have a short ones that I know of personally, our old neighbor found out her H was having an affair, and when he came home from work, everything he owned, was on the front lawn, and his dog, was tied to his suitcase. She filed for divorce and never looked back! Today, she is happily married to a wonderful man. And another friend of mine, found her H and her best friend drinking wine in the family room together. Her best friend was supposed to go bowling with her that same evening and told her she was “sick”. Turned out she was having an affair with her H. Again, my friend filed for divorce then NEXT day, never looked back, remarried to a GREAT guy! I know him well! And the kids, never blamed her a bit. There are many stories like this and yours and we have to believe that sometimes things happen for a reason.
I am in a very “depressed” place today. It’s coming up on a year anniversary and I feel like I just found out about the affair yesterday. I feel just as terrible inside. I feel hopeless. I wonder what makes some people “move on” and others feel so stuck and hurt, and angry, and betrayed, etc. I wish I could just wake up ONE day, and have the affair not be the first thought in my head. It just is. I can’t explain it but it doesn’t “go away” for me. And my H blames me for this. He says it’s in my “control” not to think and obsess. Maybe he’s right. Is he?? Is it all my fault? I don’t know what to think anymore. All I know is affairs are very devistating for everyone involved. That is for sure.
I will try to be better, as best as I can be. I feel so exhausted mentally. I asked him to move out, for a separation today and he said, “no, I am not moving out, you move out!”. I told him I wasn’t leaving my home. He said he wasn’t leaving his home. If I want him gone, I have to file for divorce. He will not go “willingly” to give me time or space. This is where I am at today. Sorry so depressing but I just needed to vent!
Hi All!
Liz–It is NOT your fault. None of it! You are thinking these thoughts for a reason.
First reason: Your h doesn’t want to be a part of the solution, imho (even if he is willing to admit he caused the problem..that’s not enough!)
Second reason: Your h may have been willing to answer questions for a short period of time (and he may have even answered them honestly!) but that’s not enough! He needs to keep answering them one million times if necessary.
Third reason: You need him to tell you how much he loves, adores, admires and/or respects. (you can fill this is with your own words) If he could tell you that the OP was a slut (and at least agree with you about something!) but don’t hold your breath on that one.
Bottom line: We who were betrayed NEED to be reassured (even if we have never had one minute’s worth of self-esteem issues before in our lives, we are struggling with it now)
Now some sage advise that was given me when I was at the same stage you were in: Let it go. You are on hyperalert and it is going to affect your health. Do you want to add the loss of your physical health to his already growing list of transgressions?
That advise was right on the money! I was able to let it go because I trust the universe to have my back on this; if my h slips again I WILL find out without all the Sherlock Holmes sleuthing. I had made it clear to my h what I had to have in a relationship, generally (like honesty and loyalty) and specifically what had to happen with the OP (like: no contact, etc)
I have played out all scenarios in my head and am prepared for any eventuality. And I am very sure that whatever happens, I gave it my best shot. He broke the relationship, but he didn’t break me! Make sense?
You are doing fine! Keep honoring yourself and your healing process.
Good advise Nicki, I agree, put your trust in the Universe and if he is doing the wrong thing all will be revealed eventually. I truely believe that men do not think as deeply and analytiacly as us when it comes to emotions and relationships. They also have the ability to put things in a box and shut them away and never think of them again. I am just taking each day as it comes,some are better than others and we talk about the future a bit more. I know deep down in my heart that if it happens again I will just walk away as there is nothing more I could do or say that would change it.
I just hate the way the thoughts creap into my mind and have to make a point to tell myself to stop letting them in. I am looking forward to the day when all of this is just a thread woven into the tapestry of my life and other positive things will be more constant in my thoughts.
Jessi, I couldn’t agree more! They compartmentalize more than we do…probably because, like you said, they don’t have the emotional depth. I hate to generalize, but I do know that my mother never held my father’s feet to the fire, never set strong boundaries, etc. Maybe we are the generation that are pioneering an end to the clueless, selfish man because we want, and know that we deserve, more, than our mothers did??
If nothing else, let’s teach our sons and daughters a new way to live and relate… Now that’s a legacy!
I don’t always know why things happen, but, when we are ready, we can find a way to make it work to the good!
Here’s a toast to all of the pioneer woman of integrity!!
Liz, I know how you feel I felt I could not let go for a long time. I guess that in my heart I did not to believe the love of my life betrayed me, my trust, my faith, my love, my family, my friends and the list goes on just like yours. I just decided that the best thing for me was to do for me and get out of the house which since I work was not a problem there but to be in social scene with my girl friends just talking, dinner a night out for me. I started dressing differently for me not him, I changed my hair color for me, I have been a blond for many years just changed the shade, I am thin and look great so the new wardrobe suits me. One day I was getting ready to go out and he kept looking at me and I wondered what was on his mind, he said “boy you really great”, I said thanks pressed on and walked out the door without another word. I am ready for a new life with or without him but i will not take any crap either. Had enough of that for a life time. If you love the guy and want it to work it will take time and like Marlene said when they are ready to talk they will if ever but I know how hard it is for you, believe me I know. Hard to let go but they are different people now and have to work out allot for themselves if they ever can. I have known for almost a year but it went on for over two years and I suffered in many ways. My health took it’s toll which was not a good thing but I am back to my old self again and have no intentions of allowing him to blame me for what he started with the OP and believe me it is not your fault, it’s thiers. They love it when you argue with him it’s like a high for them they feel they have control over you and they love it. Just let it all be for a month and don’t bother with him or react to him and you will see a change because then he will wonder what you are up to and he should. I am off to bed talk to later.
Hi all – well, a long story – I posted this on the other site on one of the topics so if you are following that one, you can skip this one! It has been 4 months since my H ran into her then followed up with an email, etc. and I discovered that. The only time since then that she has come into a conversation was the time in Jan when his passenger seat was moved back and he told me that if I was at all suspicious that he swears he had not seen her. As you all know, I have had nothing happen that makes me suspicious yet I know that since we live close to one another it’s hard to imagine that he hasn’t even passed the OP on the road while driving – but he has said nothing.
The good news is that he has not initiated contact with her and that he is not seeing her, so right now I am torn between clinging to that and wanting to follow through with my convictions.
Here is the bad news – and it all started with posting on this site – a blessing I think. I was online here on Sat night and he came in to give me coffee and saw the heading “INFIDELITY Insider” He asked what the hell was that and I told him – he went off glumly. A little later when I was off the computer he came in and asked why I am doing this – he asked, doesn’t this just prolong the bad memories? (how classic is that – if we don’t think or talk about it, it didn’t happen) I explained that it is helpful to share with people who have gone through the same trauma. A bit after this his personal cell phone, which he doesn’t take with him anymore, rings and neither of us gets there to answer – but when we both get there and flip it open his face drops and he says “it’s her” – So then we start to talk and I tell him that I have been happy these last four months and I think he has but that I am having a hard time believing that he hasn’t at least seen her somewhere and that as awkward as it is for him I need him to tell me because it’s very hard to rebuild trust after all this – same thing we all know and say. Now she has called – why? He first says that he has seen her passing in the car, once – she had already passed before it even registered who she was – and that he has gone out of his way to avoid times and places where she usually was in order to avoid even running into her – I know this is true – then he gets very upset and starts to cry and tells me that two days ago she came to school early in the morning to give him back some of the money he had given her when she was in dire straits last May (she had fled her house due to an abusive episode with her h) He said he refused the money – they asked about each other’s health. She told him that her H had been back for awhile but now she has filed for divorce. He said that she also told him that she noticed that she hasn’t seen him around in his usual places like the grocery store on Sat morning and he told her he is purposely avoiding meeting her. He said he told her that he loves me and that he is where he wants to be. She said that she didn’t need to hear that. Naturally, I got very upset and told him that once again, he didn’t keep his word about telling me he had been in contact. He said that he just did, although he realizes it should have been right away. He had actually told her that he wouldn’t tell me that she came to see him but he knows he has to – he was very upset, saying that now he is in the middle of all this – I told him, too bad – I am in the middle too but totally due to things that he and she had done, not from my own doing. I asked him to call her back in front of me and he said no. We talked more. I asked him what happened to her hating him and he shrugged and I told him that if he had asked me I could have told him she didn’t really hate him – she was just hurt and angry. After about a half hour, he went to his phone and said he was calling her – she answered and he asked her if she had called this number (his cell) I then hear him say, “it’s __, did you call?” Then he says “okay” then hangs up – he tells me that she pretended that she didn’t know who he was and that she said she didn’t call!!! We figure maybe someone was there and she couldn’t talk. We had an intimate night and I went up and down in my emotions – somewhere in the middle of the night I found my peace – I knew he went back on his word, but I hated to make something she had done come between us – either I have faith in his ability to figure this out or I don’t. The next morning, he told me that he knows that he didn’t say anything because in his head, by bringing her up, it jeopardizes our relationship but that he can see that in my head, it is jeopardizing it by not saying anything – that it’s like if he doesn’t say anything he can make himself believe that it didn’t happen – I told him about his needing to be transparent – I told him that he is a smart guy and he can figure this out. I also told him that I am taken advantage of due to my good nature and patience all the time and that he is the one person in my life whom I expect to not take advantage of me and to protect me from being taken advantage of and that my greatest fear is that he is learning that he can do this stuff and get away with it, that nothing happens – he said that this isn’t nothing – it is upsetting for him – he apologized again and said that he assumes that she will try to reach him and explain and he will tell me. He asked me (me!) what I thought was going on – I told him I had no idea but that I believe that her act had malice in it – it was not innocent, that if all she wanted to do was to return the money, she could have sent it to him. I told him that maybe she doesn’t believe him as far as his wanting me and our marriage. He agreed – he said that she may have hoped that seeing her would make him throw himself back into her arms and say that he missed her, etc. and since that isn’t what happened, maybe she will go away for good. He said he has seen her now and can say that he is not in love with her, he is in love with me and even though he “couldn’t” tell her to leave (Mr. Nice Guy, remember?), he just kept thinking that he wanted her to leave because he has tried so hard to put this all behind us.
So…I am stuck – part of me wants to stomp out because he went back on his word about telling me – but now we are splitting hairs – he did tell me, but not right away and perhaps only because the phone rang and he had to explain. Part of me wants to keep the faith because everything between us is so good right now. I think that what I have learned is that I should have been talking about this with him all along, from time to time, to remind him that it is critical that he tell me of any contact – I got trapped into his silence – not referencing it so that it could fade away – not that I am blaming myself – he is clearly to blame for this and I think he knows it – but I can see the fight in him, my beliefs against his beliefs about how to handle things – I can see it is very hard for him to surrender to my belief but I am thinking that each incident is getting us there – it isn’t that I need to win or be right, but I need to know. He agreed with me that maybe her goal was just to cause trouble, maybe she hoped that he would change his mind. I told him that if she didn’t like hearing that he loved me and wanted his marriage then maybe she just shouldn’t come around – I asked him if she is stupid or just screwed up – he said she is screwed up. I also told him that she has b—- doing this and if she is banking on my being a wimp, not doing something about it if she continues to be a nuisance, she has another think coming.
she has not yet called or contacted him to explain her bizarre behavior Sat night – in the meantime I am feeling partly that her little act may have backfired – it actually forced him and me to talk and I feel as if we ended up closer in some way.
Here’s my question – and I see my therapist on Sat. after a 4 week break – part of me feels as if he and I should tackle these things together as a united front – in other words, if she calls, we should both call her back – I think she would be very upset to discover that first of all he went back on his word to her and ended up telling me that she came and saw him and that he called her with me right there. But the other part of me feels we should not give her any attention – if she calls, don’t answer – if she shows up, he needs to get rid of her as quickly as he can – he said that he told her, again, he cannot see her and he cannot be in contact with her – what do you guys think?
I also told him how critical it is that he broke his word to her (about not telling me) in order to keep his word to me – that he needs to establish where his loyalty lies and which one of us is his first priority.
someone on one of the other sites said that he is getting his jollies out of having me and him aligned against her – he didn’t look too happy! but I wonder if there is an element of truth there because if he can shift some of the responsibility for making her go away to me, he looks less like a meanie? I think that is why I told him that I have faith in him that he is smart enough to solve this – I don’t want to go in and fix things for him, know what I mean? I will be interested in hearing what you all say….
And there’s another thought that has crossed my mind that expands on what I was trying to say earlier…
There comes a point where we can let go of the outcome. Actually, if we are to have any peace at all, we MUST let go of the outcome.
Most of our struggling comes from the fact that we are rooting for a particular ending to the story. Every time we say, “Talk to me! Tell me the truth!” aren’t we really saying, “I want “us” to work?” They throw us enough info to get us to back off. But, it’s not enough to confirm that they want “us” to work. Sooooo…we go in for another round of “you aren’t telling me everything…”
Once we get exhausted from trying to “make it work”, then we can finally step back and say, “I really don’t care one way of the other. I have told you what I wanted to see happen here and I have worked really hard to communicate that to you. I am trying very hard to focus on me, my happiness, the kids well-being and I can rest at night knowing that I did what I could do to get “us” back on track. I now rest my case.”
I think this is another way of getting to, “I am okay with or without him.”
This is the stage I am at right now. What will be will be. That doesn’t mean I have given up hoping for a particular outcome. I just know it will be ok, and I will be okay, if it turns out that there’s a better way for me to live than the way I have been doing it for the past 25 years.
Marlene,
I think it’s better to have a united front. It’ a reason for him telling you the who, what, where, when and how.
I honestly belive that the number 1 reason that h’s betray us is because they do not know how to comminucate with us when they feel troubled or confused or conflicted. ( Our conversations had been so superficial for so long that, I thought, “And once this problem is resolved, and the op is gone, what WILL we have to talk about?” lol)
I know we probably shouldn’t compare this to the way we treat our children, but I can’t help it. If my kids get in trouble I WANT them to come to me with all of the details. Not so I can fix the problem as much as it is to let them know I am always there, gently guide them to a solution, and reinforce trhe cause and effect of our actions.
In so many ways, our H’s are emotional 13 yr olds. Don’t you think?
Marlene,
Wow, what a night you had glad you came through it OK. I think that a united front is great for some of us but there is something to be said for sleeping dogs. I think he can fix this also in himself he sounds like a fellow with some sence about himself and I know we have to let them do that for themsleves. Hard to see across the fence when you are the guilty party thier perception changes but if he is willing for you to be there when he makes the call to her it’s a start and it sounds like the two of you are off to rebuilding your relationship. Good for you! You just need to be yourself and everything will fall into place and you be the better person as you have been. You are a very inteligent woman and I understand you can’t play both sides of the fiddle when it comes to your realtionship with your husband that has to make it twice as hard for you than for the rest of us. Being a therapist is hard enough of a job but when it comes home to roost at your doorstep different story. Who would have ever thought, right? Just hang in I think you have a good thing going and I wish you both the best future you can have together.
If he ever gets on this web site and reads all this stuff I think he would fall off of his chair as I don’t think any man really thinks about the stuff we do nor reacts the way we do to situations. Maybe it would give him some insight also who knows what he would think but I would bet my socks his eyes would pop out of his head. He will get on the site because he won’t be able to stand the fact that you are here and he does not know what this is all about and I will bet he wants to know. Men don’t like women keeping secrets from them but it’s ok for them to do it, thier secret little worlds in thier heads. They are only fooling themselves, what a misconception they have about women.
Have a great day.
thanks for all of your support – as far as him coming on this site – I doubt he would do so even if he is curious – you know how when you brought your little kids to the doctor’s office and they were afraid of the doctor because they didn’t want to get a shot? one of the things they do is to cover their eyes because, in their heads, if they can’t see the doctor, the doctor can’t see them – that is what he is doing – if he doesn’t talk about it, maybe he can help himself believe it didn’t really happen – I really think that is mostly a guy thing – I think Nicki is right – they don’t know how to deal with conflicts and not feeling good about things and God forbid that they should talk about it – so instead they do something only it’s a terribly dumb thing to do – and Nicki, my therapist has advised me all along that I have to let go of the outcome so you are right about that – I “know” that in my head but I have to keep knowing it in my soul
Dr Bob posted a new topic why dont we move there over 200 is a little much to go through. i have been reading all but not posted just to learn but its getting waaayyy too long
You are right about that they cannot deal with conflicts because of thier guilt and if they have a problem I feel they think a stranger so to speak is the answer for them because they don’t know them as we do. They are different with the OP it’s all a fantasy in thier heads they are acting out the ultimate role they feel they can’t with you. They want change in thier lives but don’t know how to approach thier life time partner about issues they have with themselves. Some of them figure it out on thier own others can’t and I can see that. Most men think that counseling is a waste of time like here, he said “there is nothing wrong with me it’s all you and if you need help getting through this I will see you through it and take you to see someone”. How generous of him I thought you do what you want to do sleep around, sneak around and then blame me for your actions. What a crock!
We are the injured parties no matter how you cut the cake and it took me a long time to get past so much and for the gals/guys that can restore that trust to make it work out more power to you. I will never be able to do that here not because of him but me, it just went on to long and I was left alone for to many years night after night and I was so lonely and missed him so much. I told him all this I’m not sure he understood it all but I had my say. I also know he still calls her and destroys his cell bills so I won’t see them so I know they are still talking and that is another reason and maybe he is like you say trying to be Mr. Nice Guy with it all but that does not work here for me. I am just so done with it all.
I don’t know what is going to happen here at this point as now it is all about me and not him any longer. He did enough and forgiving is one thing forgeting is another. I guess it’s all the words that I can’t get out of my head to see him as such a cruel/mean person now and I never knew he had that in him. Now that I know it is there I will always wonder when it will come about again and that is my fear, I can’t go through this with him again and I won’t. What’s my options? I feel for me starting over is the only way I can have any peace for myself as hard as it will be to walk away from all these years together it’s better to be alone than with someone in my heart that I will never be able to trust again. I just wrapped myself around him so tightly that it’s hard to unbind myself from him, the binding is coming off slowly and my self esteem is back and back to the person I use to be not a 100% but working on it and when I am there I am gone. Can’t do this with a liar and a cheater as I know it will happen again once they start this other life style the intrigue of it all for them is the high. How much and how far will he go the next time will always be in the back of my mind. I will always have the thought of him with this woman if she was better and had more going for her I could understand it better but the town slut is hard to get passed. I cannot believe that he scraped the bottom of the barrel with such sludge and cannot see her for what she really is. He is so stupid to think for a min that she would ever be true to him and I know how she is so to me it had to be all about a new adventure for him. To bad for for him to be known around town now for what he did and is he is just an embarrassment to be around for me. I have no respect left for him and even if I could I don’t think in my heart that he is worth all this to try and make it work again to much hurt inside of me. He can’t fix what he broke and does not know how to even begin with me just by talking to her is enough for me to know that is is never going to end wether he sleeps with her or not is not the point any longer. He is coming home but that’s about it I think he thinks that’s a big step for him well it might be but not big enough for me. No contact for me and for him to be honest is the answer I just think it went on to long and he can’t let go. I don’t feel he can do that it has become such a patern for him that lying is just a way of life now for him and I can’t tell anymore one way or the other. Sad but true. I will have a better life I have allot going for me, I have my own buisness and lots of family support so I will be fine.
Good Luck to us all.
Sandy,
I posted this at the “big board” this morning, but I want to add it here as well. I totally get you about not forgetting and the dominant thought I had on my mind this morning matches yours. He is not who I thought he was. Doesn’t matter to me anymore how I missed it. I agonized over that for sooo long. Done with that. I have now come to some core truths: 1) He did it once, he can do it again 2)the blind trust that he had from me is a thing of the past. 3) I can forgive (if that means accept that he is seriously, enmotionally, flawed) but I will NEVER forget. 4) Trust now, to me, is something that he must earn every single day
Mu h is still going to therapy, but he came home yesterday and said, “I am not sure why I still need to go. I feel better now.” OMG! I don’t even want to have this conversation with him. Always, always, it’s about how he feels.
I am taking notes now. I do not have a dog in this race anymore and since the emotional charge (attachement to outcome) is gone for me, I can be more objective and see what has likely been there all along, but I was too busy or too distracted to see.
Hugs to all,
Nicki
Nicki-
I was thinking the same thing that I am done agonizing over this. It’s like I wasted soooo much energy trying to look at what his character was, and how he could do this to our family, and how he could disregard me, etc. And I looked at it from a million different angles, and I never had a resolve that suited me in the end. I was still left with a feeling that I have no closure, and no answers. Once he said to me, “Some things just don’t have an answer” and that was the biggest cop-out he ever said in my opinion! I took it as, “just accept the fact that I did it and move on!”. I am really starting to move away from him in all respects, emotionally and now, physically as well. I read something that said if the betrayed spouse takes you back and tries to work it out, be very cautious of this. I know what they mean by that now. I think once all the dust settles, you really see the huge character flaw in them and parts of you look back through the years and think, wow, they were really selfish, or sometimes I just don’t think I had much of a marrige at all. That most of it was in my head of the American Dream of the house and two kids, etc.
I haven’t been arguing with him about the OP, but he notices me pulling away, and he keeps trying to pull closer, I think out of fear. I think he senses I’ve moved on emotionally and really despise what he did. It’s sad, but sometimes you have to face things and work through them in your head and that’s when acceptance comes in. I think a long time ago, you posted that you were not so sure if you wanted the “prize”. That’s where I’ve been for the past 6 months!!! ugh.
Marlene – that is incredible she called him right when you were there and I know how you feel about him not telling you of the past contact once again. It’s so hard to figure out what to really beleive from them anymore. Part of you starts to rationlize it by thinking they were only trying to “protect” us by with holding the information. Then, the other part of us, the “confident and self-respecting part” gets mad at ourselves I think becuase we allow this behavior from them!!! I think back of all the lies and chances I gave my H to come clean and he blew it every single time, except the very last time in January. The problem I have is he deleted the message and I didn’t get to hear it for myself. And…he has saved many of my voice mails to “let me hear myself”?? what is that??? That made me really mad! So, again, I thought he was sugarcoating her message. I am getting better at trying to not worry about her anymore. She’s so useless it’s pathetic. I just think of how much lack of respect she has for HERSELF! I also noticed how many times she called him after he broke up with her the first time. All the calls were “incoming” on the bill for a long time. So, she was panicking real hard, then obviously he caved into her when we had an arguement or something. He always said she “made it so easy to go back to her” (puke)
Sandy, are you doing better these days??? You have been through so much!!!
Are we changing blog locations?? this is very long, agreed!
Nicki,
I was to busy also to see it all but now that my eyes have been opened I see nothing but a emotionally cripple/flawed/disgraced person and to me he will always be just that. No matter what is said any longer or what he wants it’s now all about me and what I want and I intend to make that happen for myself. I am also angry at it all but what’s doneis done is done and there is a bright future for me awaiting my return to the whole. I think I am going to have a coming out party for me with my friends when this day comes into play. I am looking forward to it with relish. He can have his slut and all the baggage she will bring with her and I can just hear what will be said amoung our old friends and such. I wonder if would even have the gaul to introduce her to his family my feeling is that will never happen. He lacks the strengh in his mind to face the music there and I know that. Going to be interesting what happens I will just watch from the sidelines and get a big giggle.
Going to do chores before night fall.
Hope you have a great weekend.
Hi all – my therapist whom I saw on Saturday told me that he considered my H’s latest thing an “aftershock” – the OP clearly wanted to reinitiate contact on the pretense of returning money to him and perhaps even to test the waters, see how he might react
the therapist also said that a higher power is really watching out over us – first, my h’s coming in just as I was on the blog and that opening up the discussion and then her call – all of that lead to the revelation that she had come by to see him – I was soooo glad that he broke his word to her and ended up telling me but also sooo upset that he waited to do so –
the only good that came out of this was that I was able to say a few things that I had not before – regarding protection of me – I told him that I know that he likes to think that he was protecting me by not telling me of her visit to him but that the reality is that he is primarily protecting himself – protecting himself from my reaction – and I told him that I didn’t buy that he was protecting me all along – he said he thinks he was and I said, “how? – by not rubbing my nose in the fact that you were having an affair? gee thanks for not doing it right in front of me!” I told him that what he was really doing was simply doing what he wanted and just keeping it a secret from me –
I also told him that the night we were telling our son about it, I was upset that my H said something about not blaming the OP, that he was the one who had screwed up – I told him that unless he forced her, which I am sure he didn’t, she did something wrong too, she isn’t blameless and I am sick of hearing about her as if she is a saint or something – he said that he just said that because he was not comfortable with the way our son was reacting and he didn’t want him to focus on the OP as the bad guy –
my therapist suggested that I speak with my H about where we go from here as far as she is concerned – that we should decide together whether he should handle another attempt from her at contact (if and when one comes) by himself or if we want to plan together what to do – I was shocked when he attempted to call her with me right there as he has always been so protective of her and it was good in a way that she acted in such a bizarre way, pretending not to recognize his voice and denying that she had called – not for anything, but she is one of the most manipulative women I think I have ever seen –
as someone said it on the “big board” – she will clearly move on and get fixated on another guy as soon as she can – and my H will probably be glad both because it will remove the pressure from him and will let him think that she can ultimately be happy – because I know that even though he knows that what they did was wrong he feels guilty for having gotten involved with her and letting her down by severing the contact –
what I hope he realizes is that he never should have put himself in the middle and in the position of having to make such a painful choice – it was self destructive – right now he is still not smoking, which is a huge addiction for him, so I am hoping that he persists since that is such a self injurious behavior as well
anyway back to work – have you guys landed on antoher spot to post?
I am fine and just plugging along waiting for my day to come and it will. Pretty quiet weekend not much going on and I like it that way so I don’t get into anything with him suits me just fine.
Have been on the other site but it seems to me a bit more compicated then this one but will give it another shot.
Liz, How are you doing? Worry about you hope you has a nice weekend and all is going better for you. It’s hard enough in life then to be saddled with this kind of crap is just nonsence.
Marlene,
I know what you mean about making the OP the saint or someone who walks on water, what are they trying to say? I don’t know if they are trying to protect thier own image by building up this other person to something they thought they had or wished, if they think that highly of them it makes it easier for them to swallow in thier minds they are great people and the error in thier judgement makes it easier for them to justify it all to themselves. They gave me something not sure what it was but it was exciting/diferent/new and secretive. Who knows what they all think.
Just makes my mind tired to think of all the possiblities all the way around. I just think that on the whole of it all they make bad judgement calls and expect us to believe when it is all over just to forgive and forget. They don’t really want to give an explanation because if they tried they would lie to cover up their behavior I firmly believe that as they have done it so long it becomes part of them and honesty is a thing of the past.
Guess no matter what I have lost my faith in people being honest with me and I was never like that before. I now step back and think about what someone says to me and before I took what anyone said to me at face value till you proved differently to me.
I have made many changes some good some not so good but it will work out it’s all the anger and hurt but that will go away in time. I feel once I am out of all this it will be better for me to be the happy person I once was.
Have a happy day.
Hi Sandy and everyone-
I couldn’t agree with you more. First of all, I think they HAVE to make these people seem wonderful. Why? I really think it’s becuase they look totally stupid if they risked their family, their wedding vows, all the lies just to have an affair with an idiot. (which, I think most of them do, becasue what kind of people jump into relationships with married people in the first place!) my point is, they have to build this person up becuase that person is a direct reflection of them!! There is no way they can say, “yeah, I picked a real loser to have an affair with” I think it comes down to they are just trying to save face. They know they let down tons of people, their image is blown with friends and family, and the OP is the only one who is on their “side” becuase of course, they both lied together so they need each other at this point. My H knows that there is no way he can sell the OP to me. There is nothing I will agree with him on when it comes to what type of person she is. I told him flat out how I feel about her and her choices.
Hey Liz,
Hope you had a great weekend mine was OK nothing to write home about but fine.
You are right about them being a reflection on them and that is not what he wants, I don’t think he can believe that he made such a terrible choice in his life. Never thought I would hear that coming from him but in his own way he says little things and I act like I believe he acted not really hearing what he is saying and that bothers him. He asked me if I was deaf? I just laughed to myself to see the shoe on the other foot.
He wants to fix this but I truely believe he does not know where to start. Men, they just don’t get it women are thinkers and planners about everything it’s in our nature to be supportive to our loved ones.
One day I will sit back and look at this as the worst adventure in my life and I will survive it well you can count on that. Just glad the kids are all grown and have thier own lives.
Best to you and hope all works out fine as you have little ones afoot and that makes it harder to deal with.
Take care and have a good day
Good Afternoon All!
My 2cents about the infuriating way that the OP is perceived by H’s…My H’s therapist told him that she was an escape fantasy and that, by definition, a fantasy is perfect. That perfection breaks down when they realize they never knew the person they projected the fantasy on.
When I ask my H what the fantasy was about or what was it about her that was so perfect he told me, “I don’t even really know her. It was all in my mind…about her being everything I wanted her to be.”
My H has ALWAYS had a terrible time getting in touch with his emotions. (I daresay he represses/supresses alot) He was lacking in our relationship what he could not give, NOT what I couldn’t give. (I am very verbal and in touch!)
It’s not about us! It’s about them looking to receive what they could not give to us.
Make sense?
Nicki – yes it makes perfect sense – we do form our impressions of ourselves in part by how others see us – that’s the “mirror/reflection” thing – so as the OP’s are offering our H’s their adoration, easy to do when you are in fantasy land, our H’s are thinking that they must be pretty wonderful if this person is worshipping them and then turn it around to make the person who’s worshipping them wonderful too – because that must mean they are even more wonderful!
Back in Nov. after I detected the emailing contact and he ended the contact, he said that he has always admired and respected me and if I still wanted to love him, then maybe he isn’t such a terrible person, despite what he did – so that’s another example of what I mean.
I think in his head he doesn’t cast the OP as a bad person but does see her as, in his words, “screwed up.” I think he sees her as a victim – at one point I told him that her getting cancer was of course completely out of her control – but her staying in a supposedly abusive marriage and getting involved with a man who is married were her (very bad) choices – not bad luck.
Marlene–I think that if I didn’t know as much as I do about psychology and spirituality then this would have taken a very different turn. Even knowing what I know didn’t stop me from going thru the “so if she is the fantasy then I must be a disappointent to you” phase. The repeated hits to my self-esteem were what caused me so much pain. When I was finally able to knock that off then I could see everything much clearer.
Do I sometimes wonder if all of this is a precursor to one day getting traded in for a newer model? On occassion, I do wonder about that.
Yet, if that’s what to be down the road, I will take advantage of that situation by getting one of those newer, improved, models too! lol