Learn from these real life extramarital affair coaching scenarios.
In the first section the person struggling with the marital infidelity summarizes the scenario or concern and what he/she would like to say to his/her cheating spouse.
I then outline some goals that help him/her break free from the affair.
The last and important section gets at shifting the focus away from the spouse/partner to him/her self. In other words, what does all this mean for the person on the receiving end of an extramarital affair? After that mental shift (which is NOT easy for someone in the pain and turmoil of perhaps losing one’s spouse, family, and home) I, the coach, offer phrases that he/she can relay to his/her spouse in a way that speaks directly of his/her concern and has the best chance of being heard and getting positive results.
Section 1: The “offended spouse” says:
I used to focus on what mood is he in, is he going to talk to me today, is he going to look/act like he’d rather be anywhere else with anyone else other than me. This habit/pattern is hard to break, but I’m working on it. I was so hurt and rejected that sometimes in my depression that I didn’t leave the house for days. All this in an attempt to figure out how to be okay with my life and how lonely I was. This was his excuse for his affair (“if you thought it was bad being that way, you have no idea how hard it is to live with a person like that” – thoughtful words from him after I learned of his affair). I’ve been figuring out “what makes me happy” as friends refer to it, but that seems selfish and that’s just not me. I’m learning how much living like that has affected the simplist of things – mood, attitude, communication and my relationship with our 13 yr old daughter. I wrestled with deciding whether or not to stay in my marriage and even though we’re still living together, I was non-committal and that hasn’t helped things much. But lately, I’ve been getting more clarification. I still don’t have all the answers as for our marriage, but I do know that I’m doing what I’m called to do right now. He has been making changes although I’ve been frustrated that they’re not the ones I think he should be doing. I realized that he’s trying and doing the best he can and I’ve not acknowledged the changes that he has made and that tears down the very thing that I said that I wanted. Regardless of where this leads, I’m ready to move forward with my life. He has an opportunity to rise higher in his life and our relationship and if he’s unable, I can accept that, but I know with all my heart that I need more than that and I love him enough to let him go. Otherwise, it’ll continue to tear us down as individuals and as a couple. That to me would be unforgivable – to intentionally choose that. I’ve finally forgiven him and I’m excited to be able to share that with him when I see him (he’s working 4 hrs away for a couple of weeks). I believe it’s a gift that both of us need and it’s necessary for healing regardless of whether we stay together or not. In addition to asking him to forgive me for where I fell short in our relationship, I’ve finally forgiven myself. The reality is that he made some wrong decision(s), but as painful as all of this has been (this was his second affair), I’m grateful for the opportunities that it’s opened in my heart. There’s great power in “pressing on” and getting through. I’ll even go as far as to say that I’m starting to determine my call and purpose in life. I don’t have the specifics yet, but I know that my past experiences were not given to me just to keep them inside and hide them away (survival of growing up in physical, emotional and verbal abuse, death of my child at age 7, two abusive ex husbands, battling depression, etc). I believe they can help others too. I’ve always believed that, I just lost sight of it. I’m excited to see how all of this unfolds. Well, I know you didn’t ask for a book, but I’ve never been one short on words.
Section 2: Personal goals suggested by the coach:
- Welcome your sensitivity. Learn ways to use it, especially with others.
- Examine, reflect, write down the “themes?? of your life that you are internally addressing when “depressed.??
- Congratulate your self on your tremendous growth and progress.
- Be very specific on the changes you want from him.
- List 5 factors that “hold you back?? from him.
- List 6 of your greatest personal needs. (Check out the needless program on my site)
- Continue working hard on defining your life’s purpose.
Section 3: What the affair means for the “offended spouse” and what he/she REALLY wants to say to his spouse/partner having the affair:
- I’m working hard on me, and boy, does that feel good. Also very exciting. But, I’m not sure, sometimes, where that leaves me with you.
- I want for us to have a richer relationship but it seems there has been so much pain and hurt, on both of our parts, that I wonder, what that means for our future.
- I have some very specific needs that I would like you to meet. But, I know this can be very tricky and rather scary. For example, I would like ____________. If you can do that, great. If not, help me understand what gets in the way. Maybe just give it some thought first, and we can get at it later.
What is your situation? Describe your situation. Let it flow. Don’t hold back. Then, ask yourself, “What does this marital mean for ME?” What impact does his/her extramarital affair have on my feelings, thoughts and actions? Then rehearse approaching your spouse/partner with phrases that convey the meaning and impact of the infidelity for YOU.
Jessi, you are right about the lies they are the worst by far and I look at it as it’s not what he did so much as how he went about it. The rudeness, lying, cheating, verbal/emtional abuse if he would have just been honest and said this is not working out well for me any longer and I want to move on with my life I would have had so much more respect for him than all the games he played and played me for such a fool.
I think the lying is the worst for many reasons one is because once they start they don’t stop and it piles up to the point that they cannot remember what they say to whom. It becomes a life style for them and they can’t quit. It’s just a shame that men/women that do this have no clue what it does to the wife/girlfriend/fiance, it changes them inside and they cannot fix what they broke because they don’t know how that is why I believe they think forgive and forget and press on. Shallow thinking on thier parts to say the least if they think all they have done just gets wiped out by thier imature thinking they had better think again because it does’nt work that way, they just don’t see it. Hard for anyone to admitt this sort of guilt to themselves because they see what they have done but cannot except the responsibility for thier actions as I think it is to painful for them to admitt in some cases that they made a mistake. That is only if they even have a shred of anything left in themselves and most don’t. They are just shelfish, arrogant, defiant, uncaring, rude people I don’t know how they can even look at themselves in the mirror and feel good about themselves. I never could!
Off to do chores for the day, have a great day
Sandy… I wonder if they do feel good about themselves… my guess is that they don’t that is why they can’t talk about it. I would say that they are hurting themselves as well as us and everyone around them. For me this is the first time it has happened in 21 years and although it has dragged on for over 2 years in the scheme of things it is only a small amount of time. When I take everything into account it is just a mistake that he has made and all the good things in our relationship make it worth the chance to put things back together.
Had another text from the OP’s h again last night trying to cause trouble between my h and I. It is actually having the reverse effect it is making my h more protective, affectionate and concerned for how I am feeling. I think now he can see something happening to me that is a result of what he has done. Wonder where all this will lead to.
Hope you are all on top of things today, just remember how far you have come and it is okay to have a bad day
Hi all – just a couple of thoughts to add to this discussion – I agree that they have learned to lie really well – and that is scary!! I have reminded my H often of that and asked, “so help me understand how I am now supposed to be sure that you are telling the truth” – tough question and “because I said so” isn’t exactly enough of an answer – but you gotta work that out between the two of you. The other things I think of are the reasons for the lies and what purpose they served – obviously during the affair they served to hide what they are doing from us because they don’t want it out in the open – but is that because they find the secrecy a turn-on? is it because they really don’t want to end the marriage but know that if we find out that might happen? none of those is a good reason to lie – but it helps to try to figure out what they gained by lying.
One of my very best friends gave me a good piece of advice during all of this – she told me to keep him until I didn’t want him anymore – that was also a tough decision – did what he did mean he was a different person whom I could no longer respect or want? – or was it that he did something truly terrible and yet was still the same person but screwed up? I admit that part of this is all the years I have in this relationshop – 41 – so as I have said I might have dealt differently if I was younger.
I too was told by my H that I was seeing everything through the lens of the affair – this happened when I became upset about our son’s sharing that his relationship with his girlfriend was in some jeopardy and that he was “noticing” another girl – my H told me “don’t make this about us” – but they do need to realize how this experience changes your worldview and for awhile, maybe not forever, we will look at things through that lens. I also had told my H how sad it made me that I knew he had been romantic with the OP and that he wasn’t that way with me – similar to your situation, Liz, about his taking many calls from her but giving you a hard time about your calling him. All I can say is that I have come to realize that we simply get nowhere comparing what he did with her to what he does with us – we can ASK for what we want and TELL what we need – but I think we are better off doing so without the added part of saying, “well you gave her this or that so I want it too.” I think that sends the message that somehow we will always judge everything they do up against what they did with the OP – and frankly although we are quite justified in doing that for awhile, it is probably best for everyone involved for us to work on stopping that – so I am thinking that it might help to tell our H’s, “look this is the way it is now with me right now – hopefully it won’t be that way forever – but we both need to work on stuff to get there together.” And frankly he has become romantic with me again.
I know that my H’s OP wanted him to defy me – when he told her how guilty he felt about not telling me that he had seen her in Nov. and emailed her a few times, she called him a coward and a wimp and even accused me of setting him up, that is, of tricking him into telling me that this had happened – I don’t think she realized (or he does either) that part of him was glad that I confronted him – it saved him from confessing to me and it gave him the perfect “out” – to tell her that I felt as if he was lying again and I was right and that he just could not go on hurting me this way by being in contact with her and not telling me – he claimed that she offered to talk to me and reassure me that she was not a threat – that she really did just want to be friends – fortunately, he was finally able to see that it wouldn’t work that way – and frankly I don’t think he wanted me to meet her for several reasons – partly to protect her in case I ever ran into her myself and wanted to be crazy, although he knows perfectly well that I know her name and where she lives and can find her if I choose.
Hi all.
Haven’t written in a bit as I am having a really hard time as well. It’s been four days where I have truly felt that I need to move on. I am no longer helping myself or us by allowing a relationship while he is living with her and continues to hurt me. At least once a week he blows me off because he ‘can’t’ call……read……doesn’t want to hurt her feelings by calling me when he should have.
While I write this he is working in the other room. He doesn’t seem to know what to make of my calm retreat. I am very sad, but also not feeling as in turmoil as I have in the past. I feel, for now, that I will keep the ‘business’ demeanor (in a sense) and not take any drastic steps until I feel more comfortable in this mode.
Small and big steps for me. It’s hard not to share the day to day with him as I am currently working 12+ hour days and need some release. But I don’t really want it to be with him. Clearly he can’t decide…..despite what he says. So I have to let him go…..for my own sanity. I feel like I’m in a place where in order to move on for myself I have to rid myself of the current, daily pain.
So…..he just left…..crying about how he loves me. I am eerily calm. I told him you don’t treat people you love like this. I do not expect anything from him right now. This wasn’t an ultimatum. It wasn’t a ploy. It just is. I just have gotten to the point of not being able/willing to take the abuse any longer. No matter how loving and kind he is to me all the other time…..the pain is too much.
Not sharing any longer………..
Hi All,
Gee, we all seem to be having a bad week. Me included! For some reason, every day this week has had some sort of issue between us. Tonight, for example, I was supposed to go to a jewelry party with my sister-in-law. I never spend money on myself, and I was actually going to buy birthday gifts for family members, and to have a night out. Anyway, my H got all upset about money and made it seem stupid of me to be going to this. Well, you can imagine how I took it, and yes, I compared it once again to the affair. Compared it to all the drinks and dinners he bought her, and God knows what else. So, I sorta blew up and told him I would buy whatever I wanted, I have a job, etc….
Then, he called me from the cell phone and apologized. But, for some reason, the apologies, are not effecting me anymore. It’s like lip service after all he has done. I can’t tell you how many times I have heard “sorry” and after a while, you wonder why a person needs to apologize so many times?
Anyway, I am in a better mood, went to the party, had a great time, bought some gifts and tucked my kids into bed. I started thinking about all the good in my life, my children being of course the absolute BEST! And, it was weird, but I find myself caring less and less about his affair, the lies, the crap, basically. I am actually starting to like myself so much more than him and the OP.
Granted, I will have bad days, and it’s far from over, but everything I read says there is light at the end of the tunnel, and I think I am starting to see a glimpse of that light!
Sue – you are not leaving our blog are you?
Hi Sue – just wanted to offer my support and encouragement – it takes a lot of courage and strength to know what you want and need and how to extricate yourself from the pain as best as you can for you – please keep taking care of yourself and ask for help when you need it
Good Morning All!
When I look back and try to imagine what my H could have done differently in order to have effected/encouraged a stronger bond between us, I often think that if he had been totally honest with me from the beginning we would be at a different place right now. I call him “Mr too little, too late”. It’s as if he cannot see the consequences of his actions & make course corrections. He can only learn by experiencing the consequences. And we are in the consequence phase right now. I do not care, nor do I have the energy, to work on anything more where the marriage is concerned. I wonder, if I had reached this point sooner, if he would have opened up sooner. You know that Janis Joplin song that goes “freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose”? I think the fact that all is lost here (iow: nothing left to be gained by his attempts to control or manipulate the flow of information, the direction of our communications, etc.) has caused his sudden willingness to see what role he played in the destruction of us and take some responsibility.
I find myself spending more and more time defining, imagining and manifesting a healthy relationship. First with myself, by identifying the reasons I did not require that in this relationship and then by playing with the thought of a “whole” me in a realtionship with a “whole” other.
We must learn to honor ourselves; our hearts. I have come to see that this is the reason why what happened happened. Sad that it took this huge “event” to wake me up, wishing that the journey was easier, but understanding & trusting that I will emerge with my trusting, loving heart intact…with or without him (because that is my sincerest wish for myself!)
Marlene, I get the pic that when confronted it was a way out for him, been there done that. When I told him I saw them together he was freaking out in his mind and I could see it he could not look at me and I told him what I saw where and who was there. He looked right at me when I saw them together and he looked through me like I was invisable. I could not believe he did not see me but he did’nt and I watched and it made me sick I was affraid to get up and leave as I was crying and did not want to start something in public that I could not finish. I told him the play by play of what went on and what date it was and it went like this.
My girl friends wanted me to go out for dinner with them because they wanted me to get out of the house so I went. We were having a glass of wine with our salad and in he strolls with her holding hands and all lovey dovey and to the bar they went, she reached up kissed him and he pulled her to him and gave her a great kiss back. That night when he came home he gave me this big BS line about his workout at the gym, what a joke. I said nothing at this time I just wanted to dijest it all and then say my piece. Saturday morning he was really rude to me and I told him to get out along with numerous other things I said to him and then I told him I saw him with her he almost crapped. I told him all that I saw and he said to me now that you know who she is what are you going to do about it, I said nothing she is not worth my time and neither are you. He buried his head on my shoulder, he could not look at me and I think he was glad he got caught that way he would not have to admitt or hide it any longer. I think he felt a wieght was lifted off of him because I knew who she was and I think he thought I would contact her, I would never unless she said something to me and then I would just walk away as I really feel she is just a tramp and looks like one not worth the mental pain to me to even give her the time of day. She has no class what so ever by her actions alone and he lost all he had in the eyes of many including me. He has been coming home ever since but I like many of us I have been going through this now for 2 1/2 years and only found out last June about it all. What a night mare!!! I really don’t know what to believe about him anymore there does not seem to be much left as far as I am concerned, all the I love you’s don’t make up for all the time/agony/pain he dished out, he’s like a bad left over you find in the fridge after a week and I guess I feel this way because it’s hard to think of him/her together and thier escapades. All of everything is just gone no small talk about our day it’s just a blank. I think now I really don’t have much to say to him any longer about anyhting. I hate this way of living never knowing what he has on his mind or how he feels, it just a nothing atmosphere around the house anymore. I will never love him like I use to as I will never trust him again, he went way to far for to long.
I will do what I have to do for myself and without thoughts of him this is a hard thing for me because like us all I’m sure we put our partners ahead of ourselves in many aspects of daily living.
Chore time again, have a nice day.
Hi all… has been a bit of a down week for a few.. oh well tht means next week is going to be fantastic. Sue, I hope you don’t leave the bloggs, we are all here to support you. Take care of yourself.
Liz glad you can see that light at the end of the tunnel. I too can see it although it is just a flicker it is there. My bad week has been just the games my head play with me. I think as things get better you feel more vunerable as you are scared to be betrayed again. Having her h text me trying to upset me isn’t helping. My h has been acting very differently this week, been home on time, not getting off side when he is going somewhere and I ask if it is okay if I come as well. He is happy for me to come along. With all this crap from the OP’s h he seems to be more caring of me.
Sandy that must have been really hard seeing them together… think I would have thrown my drink at them!!! When I found the first text messages on h’s phone I also think he was relieved. Every time the affair started up again I always got a gut feeling and then he would slip up and I would find out. Once he actually sent a text message to me that was meant to go to her. He had purchased a prepaid SIM card so he communicated with her on that as it didn’t show up on his phone bill. It is almost like he does it subconsiously so I find out. I read somewhere that if the partner having the affair doesn’t leave in the first 6 months that is gets less and less likely that they will ever leave.
The secret thing gets me as well… is it the secret that creates the excitement or is it because they really don’t want what they are dabbling in!!
I am also getting to the point that what has happened has happened can’t change it, it was happens on a day to day basis now that is important. I have a feeling that we will get to a point where we will never talk about it again it will just be a thread that will be woven into the tapestry of our lives.
Heres to a better tomorrow
Everyone…..so not leaving the blogs! I meant I’m done sharing him!!! Sorry for the confusion.
Today was another really tough day. I am more ‘at peace’ with me…but that also brings a lot of pain. Lots of spontaneous tears….but also very healing. I do not have any family support (they have not called since 1/2…despite messages I’ve left) and no husband now either. It is really painful. Good friends are great, but it is not the same. Kids are everything….but they need to be kids.
I will get through this and know I will. Dealing with a lot of old issues and it is about time I’ve made friends with myself. That gives me the strength to do this…..whatever ‘this’ is.
I have no idea of the end result still…..know enough to know that…….but I know I am in a different, healthier place. I will stay in this place until I move on to the next. I would expect that to be when I take the kids on vacation by myself. Scared to death of that, but will do it. (In two weeks!)
On another note, he said he’d call today……and hasn’t………..I didn’t expect him to, but it does make me wonder. He is coming soon as I have to work again. After he left last night sobbing I find it odd that he would not make any contact today at all. Glad I’m not focusing on this…it’s more of a curiousity. That feels much better. Will keep you all updated.
Going to try to make those vacation reservations now!
hi…..I am not leaving the blog! I already wrote a note….and I thought posted it…but it seemed to go into the neverlands. I meant I was done sharing my h! Sorry for the confusion.
Since I’ve already written one note, I feel a bit spent. Long day again today. I am more calm, but very sad. Dealing with lots of issues….but dealing. Not a roller coaster right now…..just going throught the next stage I think.
I will stay in this stage as long as I need to. I don’t know if he’ll really feel the pain of losing me until I move to the next stage. He seems a bit tenative tonight, but more comfortable than last night and never checked in today as he said he would. Don’t care much..just observing.
Caring about me and making friends with myself. And although the realizations are painful, they are also a relief. I don’t have the family support I need and now I don’t have him either. That is very hard. But I know I will come out on the other end of this stronger.
I don’t know where this will lead…..still have learned enough to know that…..but I know I won’t lose what I’ve learned in this process and we won’t be together unless she is out of the picture. If I move to the next stage without that happening than that possibility becomes even more unlikely than it is now.
We have mc tomorrow….what could I possibly say there??? What will he say??? I feel it will be the last one, if not forever, than for a while. We’ll see.
He’s here now working and I so want him to leave me alone. Not in a nasty way……just because it is hard knowing he is here. That part will need to be worked out as well as the kids…..so much damage.
Liz i will respond to your entry on the blog with one comment so will be 2, lets move guys this one is too long
Any thoughts on where we want to go? This conjures up a funny picture, doesn’t it? All of us searching for a place to communicate!
Sandy – to echo others – phew!! and I thought that I had self-control! When I found her valentine’s card to him last year, I only woke him up and told him that I knew about the OP, never told him what evidence I had – I agree with Jessi, I think I may have caused a scene if I had witnessed it in person – as it is, my girlfriends are amazed that I can pretend not to recognize her when I encounter her in our town – I am a special ed administrator for a school district and I chair lots and lots of difficult meetings so I guess my job has taught me some self-control and how to hide my feelings if I need to. I also agree with all that Jessi said in her last post – I feel as if my H “dropped breadcrumbs” starting around the summer of 2005 and again by telling me how unhappy he was with our marriage in Nov 2005 – he was too much of a chicken to tell me up front about the affair but it didn’t take a rocket scientist to figure this out – I was just in denial for a few months – he definitely left stuff around where, with very little snooping, it could be found. As far as it being hard to leave once an affair goes past 6 months? Yes, definitely – his lasted about 18 months and it took a good 6 months more for him to really extricate himself, which he claims to have done. As far as the secrecy thing – I think it’s both – the secrecy is enticing and romantic, first of all – secondly, I think that they do “decide” to live this double life – they truly believe that they are entitled to whatever they want (for some reason) or are in too deep to get out or some such BS – and so the secret helps them maintain that life.
At this point, my therapist and I have decided that there is not much more for us to do together so I am taking a hiatus and will not go back for a month or so, to check in. I am planning to tell my H this over the weekend and to hopefully help him see that right now he is the only one who can prove to me that my decision to stay with him and to trust him again (to some extent – don’t think it can ever be total trust again) is the right one. The last time we spoke about it, I told him that, after the relapse in Nov, my psychiatrist told me that I had too much patience with this situation – my H replied that he realized that I had been very patient but it was a good thing because by doing so I helped to save our marriage rather than allowing what he did to destroy it. I have told him repeatedly how much that “cost” me to do. His “cost” was ending it, feeling like he let her down and knowing how angry and hurt she was, knowing he let me down and had hurt me too – her cost was losing him, his support and the excitement of a love affair, reinforcing that she is attractive, etc. – if I were more of a vindictive person, her cost could have been even greater and I have reminded my H of that. But that is the way it has to be – EVERYONE pays when this happens.
If this group is looking for another place to connect, I suggest you join my new Infidelity Insider section. It has a forum where you can start your own usergroup. You may go to: http://www.break-free-from-the-affair.com/amember/signup.php. It’s free, at this point. You can become lifetime members. Oh, and I’m glad you are finding each other. Dr Bob
Okay have we decided where to move to I agree this thread is getting way tooo long!!
I will use both of the sites for a while I guess allot of it is habit and being comfortable with the site made it easy to let out ones feelings and become friends in an odd sort of way through our mutual situations.
I have allot to sort through and it does not make life any easier but it has to be done. I am just ready and I have to say what I have to for me and his attitude in all this is not as imprtant to me as it ws before.
Let you know what transpires, should be interesting.
Have a great day
Sandy–I am reading all boards too until we transition. I am a firm believer of saying what I want to say also. I know there’s much to be said for charging neutral, etc., but I had to let it rip many times before I was able to get to that point. After so many months of feeling something wasn’t right and having my H deny anything was going on…after all the lies that were told that eventually caused me to start to think I was crazy…I figured, once the truth was finaly out, that he owed me big time! I gave myself permission to say whatever I wanted to with NO censoring whatsoever! Is that point you are at right now?
Nicki: I have been at that point and further along also just to deal with it all in ones own mind is enough to make you think you are a little nuts. I am just ready to move on with my life with him or without him it really does’nt matter which way it goes any longer. I also feel if I stay that I sold out and I am not sure I can do that after all has been said and done, we’ll see. I am not looking to hold anything over his head or make demands that are over the top, I want honesty I doubt if I will get it but that’s what I want.
Marlene & Jessie: I could have created a scene but what would have been the point it would have made me the bigger fool of the three of us the place was loaded with people that know all of us. I also believe that he would have come to her defense long before he would have come to mine and I am not a bar room brawler biker chick like she is all I would have accomplished is getting myself hurt. I doubt if he would have cared one way or the other about what would/could have happened to me, maybe I’m wrong about that but his actions dictate my attitude. I have come a long way and the only person that I need to care about at this time is myself and what I want in my life and not worry so much about what he wants, thinks or cares about. I need to come to grips with allot just as we all do and that will come with time. I think I am to hard on myself and I need to stop that for me.
Later, have a nice day.
Sandy–I understand. It seems these are all predictable phases we go through. If I hadn’t found this board, I would have never known that. I definitely experienced the “selling out” phase. I was trying to figure out how this squared with my own value system. I questioned what I meant when I took our marriage vows and at what point those vows were null and void. Know what I mean? It didn’t make sense if only one of us was going to honor them. Of course, none of this happens sequentially! There are so many emotions and changes simultaneously that it is difficult to track progress while in the chaos. I keep focusing on myself though and it has made all the difference. Once I realized that I could be victimized without being a victim I was able to cope better. Determining what I MUST have in a relationship allowed me to put the “sell out” issues to bed for once and for all. Once I was able to calmly tell my H what I had to have in this relationship, I was able to step back and just observe his actions to see if he was willing, or able, to deliver.
You have maintained your dignity. I really admire your strength! I am not sure how I would have reacted if I were in your shoes.
I just joined up to the new forum… hope to find you all there. Will keep a check here until we get used to the new format.
Sandy… you did the best thing, at least you walked out of there with you dignity. You would be the one that everyone had respect for. I admire you for you self control.
How was everyones weekend. Things are moving on the up here. I was feeling pretty low on Saturday when h was later home than he said. I was nearly going to say something and quiz him as to where he had been. He walked in with a very cheeky grin and wouldn’t tell me why!! Our daughter wasn’t going to be home for the night. Turned out he had bought a nice bottle of champagne and had a pleasant evening planned for the both of us. I am sooo glad I didn’t say anything it would have spoilt the entire night. Guess we have to let them find their own way to say sorry and it may not always be in words, don’t think he would even know what words to say to help heal, heard all the words but the action of planning something was a good start.
Hi all – I will keep checking this site until/unless someone has a suggestion about moving – I have also gone to the site Dr. Bob suggested – it’s set up by topic, so it’s a bit different.
Nicki – about the charging neutral vs. letting it rip – same here – and I found that it was the times that I let’er rip that seemed to get the most attention (well that figures, I guess) I think the key is not to rant and rave because then it’s not heard – but you can let it rip without screaming – some of my favorite lines that I used if we talked about her included, “the solution to having breast cancer and an abusive husband is NOT to have an affair with a married man” and, when he was saying how troubled her life is (like I am supposed to feel sorry for her?), I believe I said “she needs to put on her big girl panties like the rest of us and deal with things.” So, I also had to get to the place where I didn’t censor anything – I think the key is that you give up on trying to control or determine the outcome – once you get there, you no longer feel the need to mince your words or to worry about timing, etc.
Self control is something that I seem to live with in my life not that I like it all the time but I found in myself years ago that anger does not deliver what you want or mean to say to anyone as you can never take back the words once spoken. Hard to say even if you do apologize people never forget what you say to them, I am a prime example of that, I have never forgot all the words said to me throughout all this and he knows it. He trys to color and turn things around and make it all my fault that he lost his temper but we both know differently he just won’t/can’t admitt to anything.
I wonder about this six month thing, if they don’t leave in that period of time, I’m not sure about that. Who can determine that because if it ends and then they go back for more does that mean another six months. I don’t think they ever get over the person even if they quit the program. I think they develope a different attitude about them and to me there is no doubt they like the person or it would not have started in the first place. I believe he is still talking to her and seeing her I think they just got a bit more careful and sneaky. Just a gut feeling. It’s the trust issue here and I will never give that to him again, I just can’t. I will always question what he says to me as he lies so well, I can’t tell the truth from the lies. That to me shows a dangerous way of thinking if you are that good at it has it become a bad habit and once you start lying it’s a snow ball effect on everybody, they can’t possibly remember what they say to whom.
Marlene: Yes, they should put thier big girl panties on and press on and I heard all the BS about her, the problems, she just needs help, I like her she likes me, she’s my friend I don’t have any friends, what a line of BS, no pity here for either of them. I don’t know where they come up with such crap but it flows out of thier mouths like butter.
I am having a problem with the new site seems I go to sign in and it does not remember me, anybody else have that problem? I will be on this one till I can get it straightened out, probably just me.
The weekend was not bad could have been better but at least he is not spending it with her and that must really upset her. I don’t know what to think about her but she is nothing like me. I think we all wonder, I know what she looks like and by that can figure out allot but what did he see in someone like that in the first place I will never figure out. Maybe they think they fell into the Fountain of Youth through them, who knows.
Off to do chores typical monday, have a good day
Good Morning All!
Jessi–Wow! Hope you had a lovely “healing” time together. I agree with you that the actions mean so much more than the words. And if the words and the action match, that would be the ideal, huh?
Marlene–You cracked me up with the big girl panties line! hahaha! I will have to remember that. At some point, once emotions aren’t so raw, and the chaos becomes a bit more controllable, it is so much easier to see, and state, the obvious. At the beginning there’s too much self-recrimination, I think, for us to do it. (at least I know that was true in my case) I have no self-control when it comes to censoring, but for those occassions where I “accidentally” (lol) charge neutral, I know I am coming from a place of self-empowerment because I can feel the difference!
Sandy–You know, I am not sure about the six month thing. I guess it just means that if they were going to leave they would have done it in the first 6 months. In a way that makes sense because the 1st 6 months were hell on earth for him around here.
As for the new site, there are a couple of glitches that I noticed. One of which is the need to log in multiple times during a session. It blows my mind to see how amny people have signed up over there! Who knew? lol
Hi all – I started to reply yesterday but I was at work (it was a snow day for the kids, but I have to work anyway) and I got interruped and never sent my post.
I may have misunderstood about the 6 months thing – did you mean that an affair lasting more than 6 months is hard to end or did you mean that, once discovered, if it hasn’t ended within 6 months, it is not likely to really end?
I know that when I had a phone counseling session with Dr. Bob last March he asked me if I realized that most affairs do not end right away when discovered.
It was definitely longer than 6 months for my H’s affair because I confronted him last Feb and it ended in Sept, then he met and contacted her again in Nov and finally cut off all contact then. I think that the only thing that kept me hanging in there was that I did see “progress” and things were changing, although slowly at times. The timeline concept is pretty interesting – if you go on the “Dear Peggy” site, she says that most affairs last between 6 months and 2 years – that by 2 years, they tend to start to fizzle on their own. I found that significant because he started dropping the clues I noticed at around 16 months into the affair.
Jessi – that is cool – sort of teaches us not to jump at things and act with a cool head I guess. I do think it is his way of trying – I know that my H has more trouble speaking than acting – his “big gesture” was giving me roses and a card that thanked me for being so wonderful the day before Thanksgiving and I took that as his way of dealing with his relapse earlier that month. As I am sitting here typing this I am thinking that it is very important to really know our partners as far as interpreting gestures – although my H stayed with me after the discovery and claimed that he was “trying,” either he wasn’t motivated to make healing gestures (because of still being confused and ambivalent, still in contact with the OP), or he felt that he shouldn’t make such a gesture until he could do it sincerely. That is the way he has always been. So knowing that does tend to make me believe him more – his behavior toward me has definitely become more affectionate and attentive. Our biggest obstacle toward the end was that he thought that as long as things were good between us and improving that he could still maintain his platonic contact with her, that his contact would not have any effect on or be a threat to our relationship! I think that was his last ditch effort at trying to continue to be Mr-Nice-Guy-who-stays-with-his-wife-but-isn’t-a-heel-who-just-drops-the-OP. It took awhile for him to see that he had to cut her off for my sake and our sake. What’s really maddening is that you all know and I know (and so does he) that if the situation was reversed, he would never tolerate from me what he did to me.
Good Morning Marlene,
You are so right about that if the situation were reversed we would have been thrown to the wolves without mercy.
The six month thing is hard to understand but I think you are right after 6 months it is hard to let go and it was 2 plus years I think they are still talking but he does not come home smelling like cheap perfume anymore, I do believe that part has fallen by the way side. When I look at him I see all the wasted time and the intimacy he shared with her and I got nothing for such a long time from him, no conversation/sex nothing it was a hard long time for me. I don’t think he has a clue how I think about this whole mess in one way all he sees is I was hurt and dumb founded by the whole thing. I doubt if he will ever really let her go and I don’t know why I feel this way. I am secure in myself but I doubt if I will ever feel truely secure with him ever again.
I also recognize the Mr Nice Guy I have the same thing here he does not want to be the bad guy. I have no clue what he has told her as he has never said and won’t talk about it, like it will just go away by itself. I guess time will tell but it’s tough to have any faith when it has been so shattered.
What do you tell a person when you decide the affair is over? This affair lasted 2 plus years and he lied to her she had to have known he was lying since he would not leave his home for her. What sort of person inside is she? Can’t be all that great or he would have moved on. I would not even know where to begin. When I confronted him about all I saw and whatever it’s as if he was glad he was caught and it was all in the open but I believe he has many fears over this since I know who she is. You wonder what they think about themselves. How can you feel good about yourself when you know the pain you have inflicted on your partner of many years without regret. Hard to understand that way of thinking.
Storms here also and lots of snow in the forecast so we’ll see what the day brings. Think I will just go shopping today and buy myself something wonderful, took the day off to just do nothing for a change. Through all this my buisness is the only think that kept me going or I probably would have left a long time ago.
I wonder how many regrets I would have after almost 20 years if I left hard to figure but I am to a point where one way or the other it does not matter to much which way it swings. Still love him allot but it’s just hard to put all that happened behind and press on with him. Second guessing ones feelings on this is a tough job. Is it worth the salvage job on both our hearts.
Have a nice day.
Hi All,
Marlene – I think since I discovered my H’s affair, about 6 weeks into it, and he has now told me right when I confronted him, was the same week she told him she was “head over heels in love with him”…..so, I think that is also why my h lied about ending his affair, becuase I discovered it right when things were getting heated and heavy…so he went on for a total of 6 months. So, it sorta seems like he was a “textbook” case also. I think when they are forced into ending it, they get resentful. If they don’t end it on their own terms then they probably won’t do so? I don’t know. It’s easy to read it and have it explained but when you are the betrayed party, you tend to have zero sympathy for their affair problems!!!
Have to leave, I will post more later!
Have a good afternoon.
Hi – I think it’s a mixed bag for them when discovered, as far as ending it – part of them may indeed resent having been caught and basically being forced to take some action – and heaven knows what the OP thinks about having been discovered – upset because the game may be over? or happy because maybe this will force the guy to choose them? our H’s may be secretly glad it’s discovered so that there is some kind of closure – my therapist thought that in my H’s case, he may have dropped clues to me because he was getting pressured by her and he didn’t know how to get himself out of this gracefully – I know that her valentine’s card to him (that I found last year) was in my opinion extremely manipulative – it said that she wasn’t sure she wanted to talk to him on valentine’s day when he called because she would be upset wondering what he and I were doing that night but she didn’t want to bring him down, blah, blah and she also wrote that she didn’t want to lose his incredible love but that she knew that would happen some day and that really hurt, etc. – well, we all know that trick – she says, “I know you’re going to leave me” so that he will say in response, “no I will never leave you” – I know that my H’s way of dealing with the guilt about her was to stay in contact with her because it meant he wasn’t just using her and that the way he dealt with the guilt/regrets about me was simply staying with me rather than leaving.
As to how do you tell the person the affair is over? I thought my H’s email was great – he simply said that his being in contact with her was hurting me unintentionally and that he just couldn’t go on doing that because he loved me and wanted our marriage to work – that he certainly hoped that she would always be well but that he just couldn’t go on communicating with her and not telling me because he needed to devote all of his energy and attention toward our marriage.
I did a looooot of talking to my H during the last few months of their contact and I used every opportunity to point out that as a woman I understood her better than he did – that women don’t want part of a guy, they want the whole package; that this woman heard him say that he would never leave his wife and still spun out her fantasies so she really did not want to be his friend; that I needed to feel safe in our marriage and that could never happen as long as he was in contact with her, no matter what they did or didn’t actually do, that she would always be the person he cheated on me with; that she wasn’t listening to him but was simply clamoring for his attention even if the whole time they talked he was telling her to move on with her life and he was staying with me, she was getting reinforced; that basically he was being cruel to her because he was giving her hope – he listened – eventually.
Marlene,
I do believe I have the very same thing going on here, my problem is he will not talk to me about anything. I cannot get him to talk either he gets so angry and upset he cannot deal with what I have to say and refuses to contribute anything. I also told him the same thing she wants it all not you part time jumping from our bed to hers then back again. I know in my heart they are still talking not as much but he cannot let go and I don’t understand it either. He has been coming home since Nov on time or a reasonable time without the smell of her all over him like before and it was discusting how he smelled of her, I hated it. I don’t know if they are using each other or that the attraction is so great between them they both cannot let go. You are lucky that your husband seems to me to be more of a reasonable man, I don’t have that here. Wish I did.
I am beginning to think the lack of his talking to me will break this up in the long run as I talk and he just sits there & listens but does’nt hear what I am saying. It’s as if all the compassion has left his soul hard to explain but I feel like I am just here, but for what. I look at the old pic’s of us and then at the new ones and we look like different people at least I do, I don’t see the love in them like there use to be in either of us anymore.
He use to be such a loving man even in public with me now we are out together and nothing happens like it did before. You know the stuff holding hands/kiss a bit/arm around me it’s so strange in many ways it’s like he does not want anyone to see that we are a couple affraid maybe they will tell her they saw us together. He’s hiding from us both in different ways, he is just so different. I wonder if any of that will come back. I miss it all and probably always will. We use to be such a great couple before all this happened, at least I thought we were.
I have come so far in so many ways but when you love someone it just does’nt go away like running water. I think I felt so blind sided by it all that it took me longer to see what was really going on. I guess I just could not believe in my heart he could have been so cruel. Shame on me for being so trusting it will never happen again not worth the heart break.
Have a great night.
Sandy – obviously I don’t know your husband – but mine is also not “a talker” and he even said to me that the OP is like me, always wants to talk, etc. and he is not all that comfortable talking about his feelings – the few times he did, I got a huge flood of things – like it all spilled out at once and it was not always stuff that was easy to hear, believe me – but one thing that he did say once was that if he seemed “unemotional” when talking about the situation it was because if he let his emotion come through he would just cry – and one time he really did break down and I know that it bothered him terribly to do so – so it was like he was purposely trying to keep his emotions under control, even his compassion and regret about what he had done to me, to her, to himself, to us – but I agree that it’s a huge issue if he won’t talk at all – my H didn’t like doing it and most of the time he mostly listened to me rather than talked – I can truly understand what you are saying about his not letting go – I lived through that for months and it hurt terribly – I’ve told you the reasons why I think my H was that way – I finally came to the point where I said to him, “look I know that you are trying to be a nice guy and not feel like a heel by dropping her and cutting off all contact, etc. – you are trying to be a knight in shining armor here – but one way to really be a hero is to put your wife’s peace of mind and your marriage above all things and sacrifice this woman’s feelings and your own (about not wanting to look like a bum to her, not wanting her to hate you) for the sake of your wife and your marriage” In the end, it really comes down to doing that, doesn’t it?
Like the way you put that Marlene. My h also doesn’t talk much… sometimes I feel like he has just swept it all under the carpet and nothing took place at all. The past few weeks he has been doing some rather nice little things, just have to be ok with him doing it his way.
Good Morning Gals/Guys,
I told him that a while back about being Mr. Nice Guy and all the feelings he has hurt from his actions/attitude. I just can’t get through to him, I feel I have tried every path known to man, nothing seems to faze him one way or the other. I guess he will just have to work this out in his own mind but I feel he is in a state of depression and does not even see that. I have no idea what is going through his mind but it’s like there is a dark cloud around him that he can’t shake. Maybe it’s just the guilt if he has any.
Lots of years here to just throw away for us both maybe that has something to do with it. I am going to hang for a while and just see what transpires and go from there knowing I did try but only one person doing this does not make the pie whole. Maybe time is just the answer. I wish he would talk to someone but he thinks of that as a weakness. I did and it helped me to a point but not as much as I expected. I think about what Jessie said, under the carpet hiding in thier minds but sooner or later it will surface.
I hate to have a doom and gloom attitude about this and he has been better to me but I worry about him and his attitude. Depression as I see it needs help to over come, I never saw this in him really before though I have been glib about it with some of my comments but I know it is the real deal.
We are pretty stable in all areas so I don’t understand why all his worry about money/retirement. I think it must be an age thing he feels robbed for some reason. Allot may have to do with not having a father around when he was younger, he passed on and I don’t think he ever dealt with that, he did not have much direction after that. He is a successful person in his field with a good education and back ground but I don’t think he feels his accomplishments are what they should be. Who knows, I am just guessing.
Life is strange! I wrote him a letter and expressed how I felt and I he liked that better than having to listen to me. He read it and has been better ever since, I let him off the hook was the bottom line. I told him that he took a wrong turn in life and I would not go through this with him again but would be here for him if he wanted me to be, so the ball is in his court. The best I could do.
Have a nice day and stay warm to much snow to be outside today.
excellent point about depression – I agree that is a factor in these situations – and men “cannot be depressed” they think – it is a sign of weakness to them – years ago I read a good book about this – it’s called “I don’t want to talk about it” and was about masked depression in men – great title, no? and people are often depressed when those of us looking on cannot figure out why because they seem to have so much going for them – I know that we think the only way for them to get by it is to talk to someone, that is, go to a therapist and I know that they often refuse to do that – at least my H has, saying that he “can’t” talk to anyone about this – but he can and does, very infrequently, talk to me about some deep feelings and did so more than ever during this whole crisis – I happen to be a therapist but I cannot play both roles at the same time of course – all I am saying is don’t abandon all hope – if my H could at times do some soul searching and share with me, any guy can – but it doesn’t work to ask them or tell them to “talk” – it really has to come from them and part of the challenge is that they believe that if they talk about it, it delays the healing, when actually it’s probably the opposite
Sandy, I read your post with interest, you could have been writing about my h!! I think he comes in and out of depression and although he has hinted at it at times he won’t admit it. Sometimes he talks but it takes a while for him to get going and I agree with Marlene, it has to come from them.
Things seem to be on the improve here but as things get better and I see glimpses of the man I married I get more and more scared that it is not real. Unless this has happeded to you I don’t think anyone can understand how much it messes up your mind.
Have we made a move to the other forum yet… maybe we should start a new topic so we can easily find each other.
Take care and do good things for yourselves
Hmmm..I have been trying to post at the new site for the past 2 days and keep getting an “invalid entry” response. Is anyone else having trouble posting there?
I am in total agreement about the the depression theory. My H has always been “moody”. I never really looked at that critically; more like I just chalked it up to his being “different” than me…and that it was okay (to each his own kind of thing). Since the OP came on the scene and all that followed, I was forced to see him as he really is: Depressed. His fix of the moment was the OP, but it could have just as easily have been alcohol or any number of feel good, feel better remedies that would be a form of self medication. He is working with his therapist to get to the bottom of this. To understand where the emptiness comes from, and to find a way for him to get to know himself–perhaps for the first time ever! That blows my mind because I just assumed that because I am introspective, everyone else is too! Wrong, wrong, wrong! She, he has learned thru the course of therapy, is a fantasy. It wasn’t that he couldn’t let her go. It was that he couldn’t let the fantasy go. The thought that someone finds him powerful, needed, in touch emotionally, handsome, witty and charming…all those qualities he feels are lacking in himself, she gave him gladly. Does anyone know where I buy one of those fantasies? lol Just someone who would follow me around for 2 days telling me how pretty, funny, loving and kind. Alas, I guess I am going to have to do that for myself. I think that’s what we have all been doing and I think we are doing a spectacular job of it!!
Hi all – I have not had any problem with the other site as far as getting on or posting a reply.
Jessi – you said it well – things are also good here but it does make you wonder if it’s real – the one thing that keeps me going in that direction is that he really couldn’t help himself from acting moody and distant, etc., when he was involved with her and then when he felt guilty about not telling me that he had seen her and had emailed her – it was subtle but there – so I have to trust myself to pick up on the vibes without feeling as if I am on “high alert” all the time.
Nicki – I have read all the addiction stuff as well and my H is very very addicted to smoking – he is off now due to some health problems but those health issues were the very same ones that precipitated this affair – you know the drill – maybe I will die in two years and I have to seize all that I can get, blah, blah – the problem is that there have been times in the last year when he has been trying to give up his fantasy and his nicotine addiction at the same time and it hasn’t been easy – I did say something to him once in Sept that gave him some food for thought, along the lines of what you said about wondering where your fantasy is – I told him that he needed to realize that he had now had the very heady experience of falling in love and feeling attractive and having romance, etc. – a brand new relationship with all the stimulation that brings – and that I have not had that experience – so he asked me I wanted it – and I told him no, but that there is a part of me that envies his having had that – which was why I looked to him now for a little romance from him.
Hi All
i have been on the new site but alot of unfamiliar names and soooo
many topics, to look through. I think it is easier to just blog here myself. it seems to me there really is no one topic but many that go togethr anyway. Its not about topics its about sharing with one another. with the exception of this blog getting long i find it much easier, we should just go to a shorter one liik last time.
What happens when the fantasy becomes a reality, My ex got her preg right away so he couldnt really walk so he decided to start all over leaving my family high and dry. She was only 18 and thought he was god and yes complimented him beyond belief.He was older and appeared more stable to her than other 18 yr old boys.
They have since married, i sometimes wonderif she will wake up and realize how stupid she was, She has no remorse or compassion for the way my self and my 6 kid were put in such a horrible position. and he has littl to do wiith kids and nothing with me which i am sure makes it all good and easier for her. He pays very little to us even though he has a good job he wont report it so these kids can benefit because then they would have to pinch more pennies. I honestly dont know how they wake up and be proud of themselves and look at themselves in the mirror i really dont, Glad things are better jessi. hope you share what up soon mari, we are all herr to support you.
Well put Marlene about being envious of what they got to experience, must use that one at an appropriate time. Each day seems to be getting a little better here but I feel like a little kid waiting for some one to just come along and burst my beautiful big balloon. Do we also now have to learn not only to trust them but our own feelings!!! Will dicuss this one with my therapist next week. Will let you know what she says. We went out for breakfast this morning and when I got home from work h come in with a bunch of flowers. He used to do that all the time when we were first together.
Agree with the addiction thing, my h is an adreniline addict, nothing sinister just an athlete, they get hooked on the natural high and seek more. I think the affair gave him that hit he needed and now the secrecy has gone it is not so exciting, it just became to complicated and hard work so didn’t have the same affect. That is how I see it. H seems so much more relaxed these days and doing more for himself. Has even been talking about planning a trip early next year. At least now he is sounding like there is a future. Still don’t think he will ever get what he has done and if things keep getting better and we end up stronger then will it really matter in the scheme of things. I do think that he would think twice aboout doing anything like that again.
Jessi – I have also talked with my therapist about needing to trust my own feelings as well as to trust my H again – his comment has always been that he believes that I will know if and when something is “off” but he also says that I have to keep thinking positively.
Not always easy to do, I know.
I did want to comment on what you said about the secrecy being part of the excitement and now that it is gone, it doesn’t feel as good to him to be involved with the OP. At one point, I asked my H why he started finally to talk to me about how unhappy he was in our marriage – although he did not reveal the affair, it was that stuff that made me get very suspicious and start to snoop – he replied that he couldn’t bring himself to tell me about the affair because he knew how much it would hurt me but admitted that he thinks he was trying to tell me that there was really big trouble between us and trying to get me to pay attention to it. So, if he now feels that he did this but that we have come out of it better, in a way it could be that he got what he wanted out of the affair – he got a lot of positive reinforcement from her and he got a second chance at maybe a better marriage – of course, there were a lot of terrible effects as well. So – as to whether or not he will think twice about doing this again – I don’t really know – part of me is concerned that he may have learned that it is okay because it seems to be ending up okay, but part of me knows how horrible it was in the meantime – my therapist told me, and I shared this with my H, that he hopes that we have learned that when we are unhappy about something or that something is bothering us, we come out and say it to each other and try to settle it between us rather than going off and doing something like he did or just brooding about it – my H agreed that he handled his unhappiness in a bad way and he finally said that he wishes that he didn’t do this – I agree that they can never really “get” what they have done but I also think that there comes a point that we don’t need to keep reminding them of it because that will get in the way of going forward. There are about 3 or 4 things that I will never forgive him for but I have learned that that is okay – I accept that he did them and accept that I can’t forgive them – and he knows how strongly I feel about these things – just for the record, they are: 1)he gave her quite a sum of money to help her out and when we spoke about it, said that he considered it “his” money because it was his pay for being the president of the teachers’ union – I told him that in my head there is no such thing as “my” money or “his” money in this marriage 2) he had to have angioplasty last May and in the email from her I saw in July she told him that she was so happy that he told he that she made him strong for the surgery because she didn’t tell him how worried she was but told him everything would be okay – I had told him that I was concerned about him and he ripped my head off, obviously comparing what I said to what she said – but in the meantime it was me who sat through it all with him – I told him how offended I was when I read that 3) one Mother’s Day during the affair, he reprimanded my son for not coming home in time for dinner, just coming to visit me – so there he was showing concern about how my son was treating me and look at what he was doing at the same time!4) when we were talking about it with our son, he said that he would not blame the OP, that he did what he did and it was wrong – I guess I have a really hard time thinking of her as innocent although she would like to think she was manipulated.
So it isn’t as if everything just blows away and goes back to where it was – this changes things and I guess what matters is the direction of those changes.
He Everyone!
Marlene –
I am dying over here, becuase I have a big “Mother’s Day 2006” issue that I can’t let go (among a billion others, but that day is a particular bad one!)
I think it’s because of holidays and we put a value on them, then when our spouse disregards us on those days, it makes the affair seem that much worse, that they CHOSE to be with someone other than us. At least I know that’s it for me. I remember Mother’s Day I had a “gut” feeling that something was “off” and I suspected an affair, but had not proof. It came 3 days later! On Mother’s Day, he took me out to breakfast, then lied and went to her house for dinner. I don’t think I can ever forgive him for this stuff. I try and I get nowhere inside my heart.
We haven’t been arguing the past week, no mention of the OP, and he’s in a great mood (obviously). But I am still so indifferent. Would you believe he is actually trying to talk to me now! After all his ranting and raving that I talk “too much”….now, I am quiet, and what does he do? Calls me and says, “Are you OK? Is there anything wrong?” are you sure? I love you!”……hmmm. He must be in shock that I’ve dropped it. But that’s his request….so I dropped it and now he seems nervous. But, if I do tell him I am upset (which by the way is the truth) then it opens up the can of worms all over again. Then I get, “move on, we made a choice, you need to stop obsessing, blah, blah, blah”……ugh. So, we are being “polite” and it feels fake. I feel like I live with an absolute stranger now. Hate it. But, I am still on the fence for the kids. So, any advice from here on out?? Is anyone at this very stage?
Hi Liz – well I know that mine didn’t spend any time on Mother’s Day with the OP – but he may have called her, if not that day then certainly the day after – I forgot one other thing I can’t forgive – and this truly is the last one – and that was that he “brought” her into our home – not physically – but he allowed her to call into our home a couple times (we have called id so I saw that on our phone – once when he was home recuperating from the angioplasty last May) and he brought her photos and the valentine’s card from her
as far as what to do – I know it seems as if you are d—if you do and d—- if you don’t – and maybe that is what the two of you talk about – it can’t be comfortable for him either to do the “polite” thing – but there is something to be said about acting as if everything is okay because sometimes during it we really begin to feel as if everything is okay – or at least acting like we would act if things were all okay – does that make any sense? it’s sort of a “positive thinking” approach. If I think of anything else I will post later on
Morning All!
Liz–I am not at that stage. I have passed thru there unharmed though, so maybe this will help. Keep a journal Write all your observations and questions in the journal. (I actually write emails to myself with this info in it) Keep your eyes on YOU! Be clear that it takes two, but you have done the work for 2 for years and it’s exhausting. It seems the one skill I had forgotten all about is the process of self-preservation, self-acceptance, self-nurturing (whatever you want to call it) No matter how tempting to ask a million questions, know in your heart that you ALREADY have all the answers!
My H is seeing a therapist weekly. I have made the marriage contingent on continued therapy. I can’t remember, but does your H see a therapist? I can say that this “ultimatum” took alot of pressure off of me! These “cheaters” wouldn’t be caught dead blogging, as a rule, b/c that would require introspection and that is a skill that they simply do not have. We likely have trained them that we’ll “handle” whatever come up in our joint lives and they are free to move about the cabin with ease–while we struggle getting on the plane with the kids, the toys, the diaper bags (metaphorically speaking) I consider therapy forced introspection. The message: If you don’t know yourself, how on earth can I ever know you?!
Now, when my H tries to make something about me or something I need to do for him, etc. I merely say, “Why don’t you talk to your therapist about that?” (It helps that I know she isn’t a pushover and his charm has no effect on her)
In order to remember who I am I have to be vigilant to ask and answer this question: Whose problem is this? If I didn’t create it, I don’t own it, therefore, cannot fix it!
Yesterday, after therapy, my H stated that we needed to decide if we are committed to the marriage Hmmm…who’s having the problem with commitment? Not me. That only leaves one other person. I said, “Yeah. Good idea. Talk it over with your therapist next week and then let me know what you mean by the word “commitment”.
I am sick to death of the endless discussions that don’t lead us to clarity. Know what I mean?
…and I was referencing the endless discussions with our spouses, NOT our discussions on the board! lol
Ok…I just remembered one more thing my H said yesterday:
“I don’t think I can handle you not trusting me”
Cry me a river, man….He had about a dozen opportunities to “do the right thing” (share with me when the emails came in, when he called her, etc) and each time he chose to hide it from me.
Surely he can’t be serious that my not trusting him is a problem that I need to deal with! It’s so ridiculous as to be hysterically funny!
So, one more time I turf his issue to his therapist in order to avoid another non-production, potentially hurtful, circular conversation. (“Be sure you write that on your list to talk to your therapist about, okay?)
Nicki – Oh my gosh, my H said that too, but more like this: “you have to decide when you are going to draw that line in the sand!” I said, “line in the sand??” he said, “yes, you have to draw a line in the sand and decide when you are going to trust me again!” It’s hilarious! This is from a man, who lied for months, I dropped a divorce, he was seeing the OP the entire time, lied, had sex with her the mornings of therapy, took her to my families vacation home AFTER he said to me the week before, “do you think I could ever get away with it again?” hmmmm, well, if he wasn’t so damn stupid as to use his cell phone again to call her, then yes, maybe! UGH. Then he talks “line in the sand” about trust!
OK, this is the LONGEST we have gone without fighting or talking about the affair……and, I think he’s blown away with this. He called me again this morning on the way to work and said I seemed quiet! Amazing. I hung up the phone, and turned up the radio and I was actually in a great mood for the first time in months! Maybe becuase I see that I have options, I didn’t destroy our marriage – he did! And now I feel like observing him and seeing what he’s “made of” from this point on. I want to see some proactive action. Not just living day to day and not calling the OP! I think he thinks that is all that is necessary and we will get past his affair.
I look at it like this: if you destroyed property as a teenager, the judge would most likely give you “community service”…he or she would expect you to make restituion for your actions/damage. Well, that’s what I want to see from my H at this point. The judge wouldn’t just say to the teenager, “well, you screwed up, just say your “sorry” and stay home every night..and don’t damage anymore property, and we’ll forgive you” That’s how I view my H. Like this guy who says things like “I am sorry, I can’t take it back, what can I do?”, etc. I am tired of hearing his rhetoric, does that make sense?
Yes, I will keep a journal and the e-mailing is a great idea!
MS- How are you??? I hope you are OK!
Sue – What is happening with you??
Eveyone, thanks for keeping me “sane” right now, you are all lifesavers to me becuase I don’t feel so alone!
It was Liz, no clue why it says Anonymous??
Liz–I like your observation about community service. I have long suspected that my husband’s way of getting “absolution” is by “doing the time” for the crime. Like a convicted felon who eventually gets out of jail after serving time. Don’t you think that’s what they’re really asking us? (“How much time DO I have to do here before you let me off the hook?”)
We are asking for them to take responsibility for the crime and do the inner work necessary to prevent the wrongdoing then show, by their actions, how much they have changed AND they are asking for the details of the punishment phase.
So much has happened since saturday that sometimes I wonder if I a loosing my mind.
Had a good friday and saturday came and he said lets go out for a few drinks after we finish up the things we have to do. Ok with me I said, walked into the bar and there were 2 stools vacant so I sat down and a voice behind me said “how are you doing?” I said fine, I had no idea it was her it happened so fast but then he said hello to her I never ever looked at her just sat with my back to her. She dyed her hair the same color as mine and I just laughed to myself over that, what a pig, fat as a toad I could not believe that was her. He was so nervous and uncomfortable so he said lets just go down the street and talk. He said to her “Hi, I did not recognize you” I thought to myself you slept with her for 2 years and you did not know it was her, what a joke that was but I think she dyed her hair since he’s seen her last. I saw her car there before we went in and said nothing I can’t believe he did not see it but I was not going to be bullied by some tramp. That was not good for me all the way around. He wanted to leave because I am sure he thought that she would say something to me and he knows me well enough that I would never cause a problem. We leave get in the car and he says to me, “we were bound to run into her sooner or later and I understand how you feel about this but we will have to just get use to the idea we will see her out in public at times”. I let loose a bit and when we got home I said what I had to say. He wants this to work he told me and I would like it to also but here it comes again the trust issue. I thought long and hard about this and I am going to give it the best shot I can but both of us have changed so much that really in many ways we are strangers to each other. I guess we will just have to see what transpires but it was like my worst night mare coming to roost to run into her with him. He was fine till he saw her then he became so distant I think he was affraid of what the situation could have turned into on her part because this woman will do anything to get what she wants and I think he knows this. I believe he has let her go but she will never let him go and how far will she go is my worry. She is a very revengeful person, I don’t think she would do anything to him but me that is a different story. She is capeable of anything and I really believe that. Her house is known as the G Spot Coral in town the reputation she has here is unbelieveable and does not care, I think she is proud of it. I wonder if she knows what people say about her and if she does, what kind of a woman reinforces that opinion. I am just to straight laced I guess to understand it. He was such a respected man but that has gone by the wayside of what people now think of him, how sad is that.
I guess in my mind if he would have been with someone worth while and better than I was all the way around I could have understood it allot better but not with the town harlet and everybody knows what she is and she makes no bones about anything that she does. She has no self respect for herself and none for anyone else either. How he got so sucked in for so long with her I will never understand. There must be a dark side to them that we just do not see.
I have decided not to ever mention the whole thing again and if he brings it up so be it but I am done with it all, it’s to heart breaking for me still, I think it always will be.
Have a nice day gals hope all improves for us all.
Nicki – I think that is EXACTLY what they think! They think they just have to do “time”, not “work”.
I love when he also repremands our children for things. Like the pot and the kettle at it’s finest! I think our children have more integrity, honor, and responsiblity than he has in his baby fingernail. UGH. Don’t let me keep going.
Today I journaled all the thingst that he did that I am having issues with. I don’t think the computer has enought “memory”…
well, not a good day, but I am not sad, just reflecitve of their utter selfishness.
Sandy – whew. If I ever run into the OP with him, I can honestly tell you, I have no clue how I would react. Our town is small, and she lives too close. Fortunately, it has not happened yet…..but it will. Just my luck, it will. I will try to be strong like you. Very impressive!! I know what you mean about strangers!! Feel the same way.
Take care I will post soon!
Hi all. Had a good chat with my therapist yesterday. We spoke about the fact that he rarely talks about what happened. I have come to the conclusion that he will never know what words to say to make things better. On the other hand he has been doing little things that I have noticed. A bunch of flowers a bottle of champagne and then the other day he said he was running with some friends along the river. When I went for my run his car was nowhere to be seen where it usually is. As soon as he got home he told me exactly where he was and that he saw where I had parked and was worried that I was thinking he wasn’t where I thought he would be. That is a first, therapist said that it was a positive sign as he is now thinking about what is going on in my mind. She also said that these actions are things that require a little thought and this is his way of trying to put things back together…. that is just how some people do it.
In my mind I am sick of trying to figure it out. I just want to move on, put it all behind us and concentrate on the future. If it keeps getting dragged up then the OP is still part of the relationship… just leave her out of the whole thing, she isn’t worth any head space!!! H seems to be returning to himself and things seem fine but that still doesn’t remove that hint of doubt and only time and little steps forward will heal that. I guess we both know that this is the last chance won’t do it again and although it would be a sad day I know that if I have to walk away it will be the right choice and I will be able to do it without any bad feelings.
I guess we all have to come to the point of getting past what has happened and kicking the OP out of our homes by not even giving her the time of day, even in our thoughts because while the OP is comsuming so much of our energy she is still very much a part of our relationships even if h is not in contact with her. She is still getting her way!!! Need to put all your energy into yourself and your future with him or without him.
Oh one other thing my therapist said was to view the actions he is taking and ask myself is this something someone would do to preserve a marriage or destroy one. Remember that he wasn’t very good at expresing his needs that is why the affair happened in the first place so he may never express himself in words take special note of his actions. It makes sense as it was his actions that made me feel that there was something going on, not his words.
Thanks for all your posts they really help. Take care and do something nice for yourself today
Good Morning Liz,
Thanks for the vote of confidence. I had no idea how I would have felt and I knew sooner or later that this was going to happen. She has never really ventured into this part of town and I know she was only here because she wanted to see him and see if he was alone or with me. I tell you in so many ways she is so much smarter than I am when it come to these sorts of things she is a liar and can minipulate him so well and he does not see it, how can they be so blind or is it that thier ego requires that boost sort of like a child possitive or negative inforcement does’nt matter so long as they get the reaction they are looking for, and she got what she wanted from him and I know that. The bad part about this all is his reaction to it all, I don’t know what he expected to happen and neither did I but I saw it in his face he was terrified. No matter what he says I saw it and he can’t emtionally handle what he has done I saw that also. I think he knows the respect for him is gone in the community as everybody knows I don’t know how he can even walk with his head up after all this. If I would have been the man in this situation I would have reacted so differently if I really wanted this to work, I would have put my arm around my lady and held her tight and said to her I think we should just go somewhere else and have a good time. I got nothing from him and that bothered me so what does that tell her? That she still has a shot at him for another round or false hope he is giving her I don’t know all I know is it did not feel right. I don’t know if he will ever really let go of her. She has filled his head with such crazy stuff and I don’t know if he will ever recover and be the real person he use to be. He said to me he wants the relationship to be better, that would be nice if he could let her go it would be better this is the ultimate invasion of ones home. If he thought this was so bad why did’nt he tell me he wanted to see some changes, he said nothing to me. I knew nothing about what he was doing why did he hide for so long and only came remotely clean when he got caught and blamed me for all his actions? He does not get it and probably never will he just wants it to go away like it never happened.
I have been the better person but it has been really hard and he says he is trying but I know in my heart that this will go by the wayside in time as he does not/can not face what he has done and I will never trust him just the way I am. How can you live in a world without trusting your partner? You can’t and I cannot get past this, just me. I can forgive it all but some things will never be the same and I don’t want to live like this for the rest of my life not being able to trust the one I have loved for so many years.
Have a nice day, I will do something nice for myself today.