Learn from these real life extramarital affair coaching scenarios.
In the first section the person struggling with the marital infidelity summarizes the scenario or concern and what he/she would like to say to his/her cheating spouse.
I then outline some goals that help him/her break free from the affair.
The last and important section gets at shifting the focus away from the spouse/partner to him/her self. In other words, what does all this mean for the person on the receiving end of an extramarital affair? After that mental shift (which is NOT easy for someone in the pain and turmoil of perhaps losing one’s spouse, family, and home) I, the coach, offer phrases that he/she can relay to his/her spouse in a way that speaks directly of his/her concern and has the best chance of being heard and getting positive results.
Section 1: The “offended spouse” says:
Trust has been broken and it will never be the same. I know that at some point he will earn my trust back but it will never be the same level. This whole experience has taught me to think about my needs, think of the ways that the relationship has been unfulfilling for me and asking for what I want. It helped me find out about boundaries and how to figure out which boundaries I needed to set up. I just defend my space more I guess. If I find out that he is having another affair, it would be easier for me to accept the truth and walk away, rebuild my life because I spent enough time on myself and figured out what I want and who and what my sources of support are. I am interested in learning more about identifying and breaking the barriers that keep us from making an authentic and lasting connection. I think at the bottom of all barriers there is FEAR. How do we get over the fear to reach out and connect? My husband says I always have bad timing for these conversations. I feel very much like I am an invisible wife when we are together. We are just polite to each other. “Moving on” for him is to bury the past. I think it’s easier for the offender to bury the past. I have to say, there was more passion and more sex between us when the affair was going on because we really talked all the time about our feelings. Once he stopped the relationship, he avoids talking about his feelings and if I want to have this kind of intimacy with him, the door is “shut”. Sex is very blah because I feel invisible. It’s almost as if every move he makes to get close to me ( a hug, a kiss ) is very tentative, not really coming from a place of intimacy but it is more like a surface stroke. Why is he being so tentative and blah? I know I have too many questions but I need your help.
Section 2: Personal goals suggested by the coach
- Determine the pattern, the impasse, the barrier that precludes more intimacy.
- Identify the fearful part of me.
- Get to the bottom of “bad timing.??
- Explore in detail the kind of affair that you faced to help determine strategy.
Section 3: What the affair means for the “offended spouse” and what he/she REALLY wants to say to his spouse/partner having the affair:
- If the affair was “I don’t want to say no”” “I’m not sure I’m willing to live in a relationship where I struggle so much with being “invisible.?? I’m not sure when I will draw the line, but I’m almost certain it will be drawn, if I continue to feel the void.
- If the affair was “I need to prove my desirability”” “It is difficult maintaining and building our intimacy, the way it seems. I struggle with that?? feeling ok about myself. I wonder if you do too?”
- If the affair was “I want to be close to someone, but can’t stand intimacy”” “Wow! This has been a roller coaster ride. We move close, we move away. We seem to be pulling away now. I suppose this serves some purpose?”
- If the affair was “My marriage made me do it”” “OK, What the #%@# is going on here? There’s a part of me that wants to spit nails. I do NOT want to live this way. I’m royally #$% off at how this is going! And, I would think you might be #$#%# off too!”
What is your situation? Describe your situation. Let it flow. Don’t hold back. Then, ask yourself, “What does this marital mean for ME?” What impact does his/her extramarital affair have on my feelings, thoughts and actions? Then rehearse approaching your spouse/partner with phrases that convey the meaning and impact of the infidelity for YOU.
Jessi,
So sorry to hear. I’m at my wits end at 4months of knowing and 7 months of affair…..and thinking how could it be that long? Don’t know how I’ll do much longer. I agree with Shennie..what does your daughter say? A very large part of me wanting to move on is not only what this is doing me, but the kids. They seem to have the same sentiments as I. They, of course, want it to work out, but are feeling like the limbo is beginning to get worse again.
My husband said tonight in response to my statement “I don’t know how I am going to do this”,he said, “I don’t know how I’m going to do it either, but we can work it out together.” Such hopeful words from someone who is was sneaking a call into his wife! Good God…..
I’m hanging on for his plan proposal tomorrow night. But my hopes are not very high. His twisted thinking probably means he feels he is giving me something wonderful and in essence it will be more of the same. I know I am being pessimistic, but the roller coaster is running again.
Remember the articles about being ‘the rock’? I keep wondering how in the world to do that. Or maybe I’m not supposed to be so much so when he isn’t living here and is still with her. Maybe that is when I am supposed to be throwing the towel in the ring.
Too much going on in my head to write it all, but I am getting more and more able to say ‘no’ and ‘yes’ depending on MY needs.
Jessi….talk with your daughter. And then talk with your husband. Keep the lines of communication wide open and do what is right for you.
Vincent…..that seems good, but remember that there is soooo much more to it.
I know all about the roller coaster Sue. When I read about the ones that had the affair I wonder what it was that made them realize what they were doing and what made them want to really make things work out. My husband says he wants to stay but I feel like the one that is doing everything to make it better. I am convinced that he has a huge problem … mid life crisis or som such thing because this affair has turned the sweet, caring guy that I married into an absolute mess. His thinking just doesn’t make sense for someone as intelligent as he is.
We found some letters written by our daughter and the words she wrote about him, I would be devistated if she said those things about me. She just wants to get off the Merry-go-round as it isn’t any fun. She appears to be happier when he is not around, if he wants to keep his daughter he has a lot of work to do with her as well. Not sure if he is capable of looking past himself.
Hope all goes well for you Sue and you don’t hve to stay on the roller coaster as long as I have. it hasn’t been all bad but when I found out that he was still seeing the OP when he came back I was angry… this could have been all over and I would have been settled in my new life by now if he hadn’t been so selfish. Still hasn’t returned home, my daughter and I have had a very peaceful day without all the stress… maybe we would be better off without him here.
Vincent, I hope it works out for you if only my husband could face what he has done and help me heal.
Hi All,
Well, yesterday was not so good. My daughter overheard us arguing and my husband and I got in a huge fight, then of course, the affair resurfaced (like I’d hoped it wouldn’t since I was doing so good). We said a lot out of pure anger and even discussed divorce (me, not him – he doesn’t want one). Anyway, in the afternoon we talked and I cried and told him I didn’t feel he was supporting me enough EMOTIONALLY. He honestly thinks that just by being there and not seeing the OP (so he says) that should be “showing me” his commitment and remorse, etc. I told him that he just doesn’t understand that it takes constant reassurance after all the betrayal and I can’t just trust him. He says he understands that, and doesn’t expect me to just trust but he says I have to pick a point when I am going to decide to “begin to trust again”. Does this sound familar? Anyway, my daughter was crying (due to the arguing) and I told her that mom and dad were having problems and we were trying to get along and work on them. I also was upfront with her and told her that sometimes mom and dads that argue get divorced and they get along better when they don’t live together. Of course, this was the hardest thing I’ve ever had to say to my child and her response was “just get along mom”. So the GUILT is eating me up. She doesn’t understand any of this, and she doesn’t know anything about her dad’s affair. Then she told me her biggest concern is that if we get a divorce, and we marry other people, that the other person will be “evil” and mean to me. Again, that devistated me (because I can’t stand the OP). A huge part of me thinks I am staying in the marriage so that my kids don’t have to deal with the OP in their life, or anyone else for that matter. I am so protective of my kids. My husband said he totally gets vibes from me that I am in turmoil with my decision to stay and that he thinks we need to do it for US and not for the kids. I agree with him. A part of me does still love him and I do want this to work. I just feel like I am a total basketcase after all he put us through and now I feel like it’s all on me to pick up the pieces of something that I didn’t create. Sorry to vent all of this but I just feel like you all can relate to this chaos.
Sue – is it tonight that he’s coming over or calling you? I pray this goes well for you and the kids.
Vincent – Yes, that is a big step because intimacy is very important, although, don’t be surprised if she cries, or gets upset. I did. I also think it stirs up emotions that she isn’t prepared for. But, it does show she still loves you or she wouldn’t allow her self to be that vulnerable with you. Please keep supporting her and complimenting her.
Shennie – I got WAY too many details also. NOT GOOD. I totally agree with you. At the time, I totally thought I wanted every single aspect, and I made him tell me everything. And, the way that I am wired is I don’t forget details. I think it’s almost like you are d’d if you do, d’d if you don’t. If you don’t ask, you fill in the blanks yourself, which is dangerous, and then when you do ask, you get fueled all over again. My husand says it’s so hard becuase he thinks I never get the “answer I want”.
Jessi
About your daughter, she prob wont bother with the Op much as she said , but I must tell you this is great news for the Op. To him she will use it to bad mouth you and play on his sympathies, but in reality she will not have to deal with his kid in the end which inside she will like whether she admits it or not. Whether or not she is willing to accept the OP it is important that you encourage her to allow herself to demand what she needs of her father even if it means requesting the Op not be present. My x has tried forcing his new on the kids, (the young ones) and recently they are now resenting it because they want the time with thier Dad not their Dad and his new family(they have a 3yr.old) When they get together the 3 yr old is demanding and takes the attention from them, he was told to make their time with them but he cant seem to do that when he only sees them twice a month for a day. Its about them not the kids. The OP would love nothing more deep down than to erase his family but they wont tell him that.
If he runs when things are tough chances are he wont deal with it.
Sue
how did his weekend away with her go. Is she moving out. Im not sure what his statement means I dont know how I am going to do this, What keep both ya he probably doesnt. You have given him enough time to sort himself out. But it is no wonder her cant when she is still involved . I am praying for you that he makes the right choice for your family, Keep us posted
I think today will be a turning point of sorts. I just realized that yesterday was 20 years for us. So sad. I woke up this morning totally calm and feel clear. He must have a plan that includes the definitive end to the affair or it is no plan at all.
This morning I seemed to just KNOW that the kids and I have a nice routine and we enjoy each other. We all want him to be part of that, but if he can not be, he really can not be. The so very hard part is knowing that he wants to be. He does have two counseling sessions for this week. Maybe if he has a plan he can get the support he needs to follow through.
This weekend for him seemed to be just more turmoil of missing me and being anxious that the end is near. No movement on the OPs side of things. This is why I am so clear. He sent an email to me at 3:40AM as he could not sleep. I don’t think I could upset the apple cart any more than I am.
Liz, I’m sorry I can’t remember…are you in couples therapy? From your note it sounds like you would both feel better in changing how you argue……..not trying to keep more in, but finding a way you feel more comfortable letting it out. You seem to be trying so hard but feel so guilty when this happens. I know the feeling well. I also don’t have the added burden of keeping the ‘secret’. That must really take its toll on you. Take care of you!!! (This, coming from me…….well, take it for what’s its worth!)
Sue,
we were in couple’s therapy right after I found out the first time and we were in it all summer long but he LIED and was still seeing the OP so I filed again. We went to one joint session about a week ago and that was it. I honestly think he needs his own individual therapy because he has a lot of other issues besides the affair as well. (controlling, type A, verbal abuse…need I say more?) I am in therapy for myself and I do think it helps tremendously. It sort of puts it in perspective that you cannot control your spouse and you need to be the best person you can be regardless of what the outcome is. (again, easier said than done!)
He sent you an e-mail at 3:40 with the OP there sleeping? I forget, have you ever me the OP?
Has anyone had any confrontation issues by running into the OP? I just wondered becuase I live in such a small town, that I am bound to see the OP at some point, and I want to mentally prepare myself. I don’t want an all out screaming match, I want to stay composed and come out looking like the “better person”. I am just afraid actually seeing them will trigger huge emotions? Any tips or stories to help with this if it happens?
Liz……..I agree. The individual stuff is so important. I need to do that soon myself. Everyone is getting it but me.
Oh…he e-mails and calls me with her there…..of course she doesn’t know it. He soooo needs the counseling. We had a long talk this afternoon. Not the big stuff as this was only on the phone. He is a train wreck and a half. I told him if he tells me he can not decide where he wants to be then the decision is made. If he can not decide how to make the decision happen…..we have something to work with. We’ll see.
As far as a ‘run in’ goes. I did meet with the OP early on and go back and forth about doing so again. It went as well as could be expected at the time. I have a friend that did have a run in with her. She bartends and my husband and the OP went in one night. My friend and the OP got into some short of a yelling match over me. My husband walked out before it started as he could tell it was going to be ugly. My friend lost her job over it. I feel badly, but I have to say I don’t think I would have done that. If the OP is immature…..that’s her problem. I am no longer 12 years old and have no intention of acting so (although I do at times when I least expect it). I guess if I ran into her unexpectedly my concern would be that I would pass out on the spot. I tend to become ultra-calm in those types of situations and say something really clear and to the core of the problem. It usually either works or comes back to bite me huge. I’m not so good at keeping my mouth shut.
As a last note…..I’m seriously thinking that if I need to end our marriage I should go meet with them where they are living. Talk about triggering huge emotions. That should do the trick for me. Of course, I don’t want to make myself more miserable either, so I’m saving that idea in my back pocket hoping to never need it.
Sue,
I have known the OP but not personally so to say. The worst part, is I never liked her as a person, so when I found out it was her, I almost DIED. I couldn’t believe she was the person he picked to have an affair with! Not to say that ANY person would ge “good”, it’s just that I never liked her to begin with, so when your husband tells you stuff like he thinks he’s falling in love with her, etc. it’s so hard to swallow! (as you can relate!). The bar where he hung out at with her, the bartenders and waitstaff were totally against her and that she was seeing a “married man”. They almost lost their jobs also for getting involved. Doesn’t it amaze you how many people their inconsiderate act actually effects? Tons!
As for you, YES, you need to give him a total ultimatum. I gave my husband the choice, me or her. Period. He “picked me” but….again, do I trust he isn’t still talking or seeing her on the side? I am not sure. If I find out, I am DONE. I know it will tear me up if it comes to that, but I have to be prepared to do so. I gave him 2 big chances and I am not giving him 3. Then it will be 4, then 5, etc…you get the picture.
Please keep me posted!!!! I am praying for you and your family.
What a viscious cycle this all is, its so sad. You know its funny because they keep you hanging on, they use your love for them and they know they can do it. Even when mine disappeared, even 2 yrs after I can remember memories would still draw me backward even though he was not coming back or even that I wouldnt have him by then. Love is a strange thing becasue even knowing all that and that I hadnt even seen him for 2 yrs plus I was still being drawn back to thinking about it even so can you imaging, the power of love is so great that it can control your emotions even if they are not good for you and you dont have to even want them. Its like a catch 22 damned if you do and damned if you dont.
As for seeing the Op if it were me and there have been occasions where she is in the vicinity, of course she totally avioded coming near me, rightfully so. but I decided that she wasnt worth the time of day. I would not give her the power over me, I refused to even look her way becasue well she just wasnt worth my time. I juust held my head high even though it was the hardest thing I had to do and acted like she didnt even exist like she wasnt right there because I wanted her to know that I could rise above her in some way. That she didnt have the power over me she thought. Other people have stepped up for me too and humiliated them both in public many times so I guess I didnt have to, it just makes you out to be the bitter ex. If she thinks you want him she will even more. If you tell her she can have him then she might wonder how valuable he was in the first place. its the old you know people wanting what they cant have thing. Well she has him now and she can keep him, in fact they deserve each other. and hopefully one day will come back to bite them both.
Shennie…..I hurt for you. The pain in your words is palatable. I hope it ends soon. You have come so far. Keep thinking of you and it will come further. I really think you have so much to deal with (I don’t know that I could ever deal with what you do) that the pain and suffering has lasted longer. You simply do not have the time to heal yourself. As your children get older you will hopefully be able to take more time to be quiet within and deal with the pain. How do you do it??? I am so impressed and in awe of you.
I feel badly talking about me now, but need to do it. Tonight was the in between that I did not expect….yet thought it was a possibily…just could not imagine how. He worked hard at being honest and insightful and did a really great job at both. We talked about the fact that he is not begging and how much that matters. I would have thrown him out the door with that. His issues are real and what I guessed at, but never ones that he has been able to express or I was willing to broach. What that means is that he told her that he is not willing to get divorced….ok not what I wanted in the “I love my wife” department, but a lot further than what I had expected.
He also had serious insight into his own issues which I have know about for some time, but never in a million years thought he could come to it. I’m sure she helped him do it (but I don’t know that) and that kills me, but if it is a means to an end I’ll take it. He has gained the time of the counseling appointments this week from me and knows that this is not a long term process in the ending of the affair. We talked about this so specifically that I feel good about the process. Whatever the outcome I feel confident that I have been oh-so-clear and that he totally understands me. He has also been clear….on and off…depending upon what is going on for him…..and I totally understand that. What it all means in the ends is still an untold story.
Love is hard. It is on so many levels. What I hang my hat on for the moment is that we both agree that this hard earned love is worth something. What may totally mess it up is that the easy love of the OP is so inviting. The funny thing is he says that with this time it is less inviting. But it is still causing him so much turmoil. That is when I question the physicality of the process and the honesty. OH……….the simply sucks. Sorry, but it does.
I love my husband in a real sense….for who he really is and can be. But I truly do love myself more. Finding that line will be the bitch of this process.
Sue, I hope that your husband can be stong enough to do what is in his heart and from what you have written it’s coming home to his wife and family. Not sure that going to see them where they live is a good idea. What do you plan to accomplish with facing them them together now, maybe it’s too soon for that. Suppose your husband says he is not coming home now and you follow thru with divorce plans, what will you accomplish except making yourself sick and putting him on the defensive.
We are going to a new marriage counselor today for the first time. Our other MC was a little to far away and not convient to get to. So we chose someone close to home. A little apprehensive about re-telling the story but have so much hope that he can help us resolve so many issues.
We had a really good weekend. We went to on a little trip together overnight and the kids went to my parents. We had a really great time. I refuse to let my thoughts of them together ruin my life anymore. I was wallowing in self-pity on Sat and had a “talk” with myself about what I was doing to myself with my obsessing. I HATE the thought of them together, I HATE the thought of what he said to her and promised her and planned with her, but those plans and promises to her went no where so I have to hope they were only words and nothing more. We traveled alot before kids and still went away for little weekend trips after, but this trip was like it was before we had kids and all the bad stuff started. We had fun, laughed, shared and it felt so good. Maybe letting go is the key, letting go of my obssessive thoughts and anger. If I just knew for sure he wouldn’t start talking to her again……….I know nothing in life is for sure, but for him to say to me, it’s over now, move on, well it’s not enough. It’s like putting a bandaid on a huge gaping wound. Not enough to heal it and the wound just keeps oozing and festering. We need a MAJOR bandage and time. Hopefully we will get there soon.
I asked my husband what he was expecting from therapy this time around and he said to get us to move forward. I want this too, yet I think that until we resolve the issues that led to the affair and have led him back to her on and off, moving forward is still in the future for us. How do you move forward with so much unresolved anger, hurt, frustration, looming. Maybe it’s me that has the unresolved issues, but I truely think he has issues of his own. Things he needs to deal with in order to stop this “addiction” cycle and understand what it is that draws him to her and away from me. I think about living the next 40 years with these thoughts in my head and I know I won’t be able to do that. I need to deal with the pain and trust him again. The trust issue will have to be resolved in time, I know, but it’s not like I haven’t tried. I just keep getting burned. I love my husband and I know he loves me, if love were enough, we’d be fine. The fact is, loving someone, doesn’t mean that you’ll end up togther. I will always love my husband and even if we divorced I would always consider him my husband. He is IT for me. Other people may come along and I may feel love for someone else some day, but never the way I feel about him. I don’t mean to sound fatalistic, like I don’t think it’s going to work out, because I think we have a great chance at making this work. It’s just so hard…….and painful to work through all this stuff. Some days I am not sure I am strong enough to do it. Take care to all of you today, I’ll let you know how things progress. MS
Sue
Dont feel bad for me, There will always be times when you are drawn back to the pain, move on or not its only human. When I look back upon my life it is not really him that i miss it is my dreams that developed over the 26 yrs we were together. its the dreams that are the hardest to let go of, the expectation of what the future was going to be in growing old together with so many children at hand. Diverting myself to dreams of the opposite has been very hard because the children are here with me and can easily prevent those things from happening. I look at it this way God has truly given me a second chance in life and I accept and welcome that but sometimes making it real is another story. If I didnt have all these children moving on could be so easy as it was for him. starting over with a clean slate. But face it I have 6 yes 6 kids to carry into that new dream and I feel there are very few men that could accept that regardless of what else I have to offer. Its a big bite for anyone to chew even me and there already mine. Dont worry about me Im ok its just getting through it and educating myself on my choices and how to reach them is my goal. Deciding what new dreams to have is the biggest feat because of circumstances they can be hard to reach. With children its hard to make your priorities about yourself so I just have to bide my time until the time is right, patience is my virtue and that can be difficult. It does help me to help all of you and I hope in some small way I have done or can do that. I think sometimes until your new dreams are in place its hard to not feel past pain. Dont worry Im ok being here with all of you helps me to see things I couldnt see when I was in the middle of it as most of you are now. And its allows me a chance to reflect and confirm where I am and it is the right thing. I hope some os this makes sense.
Long shot= I am trying to convince my wife that this issue was totally my fault and down only to my selfish behaviour for a short period of time and not symtamatic of problems in our marriage which was and will be wonderful.
Any body any links that might help thanks..
To Marlene,
As for reconciling how I allowed this mess to happen-pure self centeredness??.I really never thought true the implications of being caught.
I suppose I never knew how much my wife needed me or me her.As for my personal development i am just trying to understand how I could have been so selfish so as not to even consider the implications of my actions.
For me the other woman was a ??thrill thing’a living on the edge ??never needed just wanted.
A betrayal of a physical nature has cuased a deep wound I never really thought about and it is the fact that I never considered others that has me searching my soul to find out how I could have been so selfish.
Today has been a not too unexpected step backwards as my wife confided in her eldest sister who has been abroad and now feels that she has been too easy on me.
The girls are still ignoring me but I have great hope.
It is amazing to me how so many people can be experiencing the same problems in life and yet each of us feel so alone.
Sue-I think Shennie is right, don’t go and confront them. You will end up looking desperate and crazy. Take the high road and concentrate on yourself. It is so hard to stop obsessing about him and what they are doing. I am going to an al-anon meeting in 15 minutes. My therapist keeps insisting and after going to a couple, they seem to help. Is that something you can do?
My husband has been seeing the op for two years now and moved out 2 1/2 months ago at my prodding. After him coming and going I brought up ideas Friday for him to think about while he was with her. He says he can’t see his future w/o me, so told him he should start thinking about what IT will be like. Asked him has he thought about splitting up the assets? What address is he staying at (a friends) so I can serve papers? The roller coaster is over and he is not to come and go anymore like he has in the past. He will see the kids two weekends a month and will take them, not just spend time here at our house. Sunday he came over to take our daughter to an appointment and said he wanted to move back in. The stipulations are, he is not staying overnight until he has set up a marriage counselor appointment and has stopped seeing her. He needs help doing that. Well, he left saying he would call yesterday: he did not. And he would call today after seeing his therapist who is to help him break it off. Still no word from him. They feel so bad, guilty and ashamed for what they are doing. So change it and start doing what is right to improve how they feel! I am so done with this. I told him that and I would not call him. I think this is an obsession for us because we want what used to be and cannot control or get it back by ourselves.
One of you had a bad Saturday, been there so many times. Too bad we all can’t be together instead of being alone. I hate that. It just makes matters worse. Our kids need us yet I can’t get it together to be there for them. Time to move on my brain says yet my heart isn’t quite there. I was really mad Friday night when I talked (calmly) about this. Giving him scenarios in a way where he has to make decisions without appearing as ultimatums. I didn’t expect him to say he wanted to move back. Well, if he wanted to where the hell is he?
Thanks for letting me vent. I don’t always write, but I read your blogs and want you to know how much it means to me sharig our heartache. Everyone says think of yourself, do for yourself. After 20 years that is so foreign. I pray for all of us to get through this and feel better. The sun is out today in Chicago and it snowed slightly last night. It is bright and that is how our futures will be. Bless you all.
OK….another day….another night. I never wanted to go over to ‘their’ house to confront them. It was a thought to put me into the ‘never again’ stage if I felt I needed it. But you are all right. The pain I have avoided on that front would be pain I would have a very hard time getting over. So why do that to myself? I should decide ‘for me’ and go with it.
I had an interesting time tonight. I don’t know how else to phrase it. My son needed a new picture printer hooked up to the computer to complete his school project (despite our combined words to not expect it…he is 12 and did). He called his dad twice to come and do it. On the third call he said he was on his way. Never talked to me and I did not believe it.
He came and stayed. I was totally out of sorts and could not figure out why. This is a good thing…..right? But I somehow felt off center and did not know what to expect. this all while I’m thinking about my conversation this morning with my 11 year old daughter who told she is not so sure she ever wants dad to move back in! (She sees her dad more now than ever and we have a routine she is comfortable with. She also said that she believes the worst is over….unless he marries the OP. This is too much for an 11 year old!)
Well, that (my being out of sorts) led to a conversation after the kids were in bed that he was not comfortable with. Thought we would just ‘hang out’ and not have the deep conversations. Although I must say that I agree with that because there is only so much of this all of us can handle at one time, I was still out of sorts.
He was put off, but hung in there with me to help me figure out what I was feeling. In the end it was simple. I was happy to have him here, but could not ask if he would stay after the kids went to bed as I could not handle another disappointment. I am so ready to call it quits. I share this because I want to write it down, but also because I think it is such a good example of something so minor in some ways that has become so big because of what I am (we all are)going through. Working this stuff out is a total bummer when we aren’t even at the point of really having a marriage.
I am not so optimistic right now, but not bummed out either. That scares me a bit. I am sooo hoping he comes up with something big this week because otherwise I believe I will put the end to it. And then he might step up the process and I won’t be as receptive……another vortex.
Not trying to project. Just what I am feeling and thinking. The day to day thing is so real.
Shennie…..feeling badly about what you are experiencing is probably an extension of what I am feeling. I have a hard time functioning and am so in awe of what you do…..really. I am strong on some days and not so much on others. I think this is probably what we all feel. Unless you are in the beginning stages…in which case you feel strong only when you are so angry you can’t see straight.
Jean……write if you can. I really ‘enjoyed’ (again….who enjoys this?) reading your note. It helps. You sound strong and not just venting. Although I think we all probably sensor our words to some degree. As always……focus on you. Those words of advice continually bring me back to the ground and make me feel better. It just is not always that easy to do. Hence this blog.
I hope you all are sleeping! Because I need to and still am having a hard time with that. My son wants to do his science project on sleep because he says he can use me as a subject as I regularly go on 5-6 hours. UGH! That hurts! (Not that he knows it!)
Hey Jean
Good for you for holding the power of your own, I know its contradictory to what your heart says but in the end you do have to be true to yourself. You are right if thats what he wants then where is he, words words words they are full of them and actions speak not words, when i told my ex that he said he would fight with both barrels loaded and the proof would be in the pudding with tears rolling down his face and I didnt see him for two years or more. Ya the proof was in the pudding all right , just more words,they test us to see how vulnerable to them we are, if they still have control can they manipulate us with our love for them . I am proud of you that you are holding your ground and being true to yourself Jean. While it is hard to stay it is harder to walk away for sure. and let the ball be in their court not ours. then and only then can we really become what we truly are inside, Your right It would be great if we could all get together and have a huge yak/cry session then get totally blitz lol. One day well have to convince Dr. Bob to just get us all together for a conference and he can write yet another book, called moving on how and when lol Take care Jean and the best of luck to you.
Sue
I feel deeply for you as you are in a very confusing stage right now and limbo is tough because you dont knoow if your coming or going. Even when you get past it all it never really leaves your side whether you forgive the person or not there will always be times where your emotions run off on you whether you want them to or not. I do believe that it is a normal human reaction. The big thing for me right now is the future and growing into the best person I can be. I have a big heart for people in general I love to help others and I have realized that I do like who I am as a person . The more confident I become with that side of myself the more things improve. I talked with my mom yesterday about this blog and how it really has brought alot of light to myself. Even though I am past the stages you are all in you dont see some things when you are in those stages but its much easier to make sense of things when you overview others going through them. somehow the pieces all start fitting together differently and through that insight you can continually make new realizations that you could not do when you are in the middle of the storm. I feel so deeply for you and your situation and I know how long it takes to work through things, mostly feelings. Let me ask you something because its something I have realized more and more. Are you more afraid of attempting life on your own or of staying. Is it him you will miss the most or your dream of what you thought your future would be. (dont ask yourself the second question if you are in any emotional state) I dont miss him anymore but I do still miss my dreams and the hardest part of missing those dreams is that not only cant we replace them really , but we really cant start over due to our ages and that we already have the children so its all about making new dreams and can take forever to decide what you truly want them to be, becasue for a woman , the dream of family and growing old together I believe is stronger for a woman than it is for a man, no offense guys. Letting it go is hard and finding a new one is even harder.
As for your daughter saying she didnt know if she wanted him to move back, one of mine was 12 at the time and in fact she said dont you dare take him back and she never waivered from that feeling. I really was shocked and had to take a step back from it to absorb what she really meant, it wasnt just her anger for it all as much as the morals I brought herup with. Iknow that when she grows up no one will walk on her for sure and that she will choose very wisely because of what she has been exposed to. Sit your daughter down and ask her why it is she says this for real, it will also bring you both closer together and will give you more strength as well. Thinkin of you Sue
Shennie, funny, when I was going through infertility, I posted on a message board on ivillage and chatted frequently with girls who were also going through IF. We became pretty good online friends after years of posting, chatting, email and phone conversations. Some of us decided to meet in Chicago for a girls weekend and we had a great time! So when my husband found out I was posting on this blog, (I told him) he laughed and said are you going to go meet these guys too and talk about how horrible your husbands are?! We laughed, but I told him that actually, most of the gals on here amazingly don’t say that their husbands are bad or horrible etc. Most of the time they speak lovingly about them and show genuine concern, hope and faith in them. Made me think what great people we must be to have such horrible things done to us and still be able to speak in such loving ways about the person who did this to us. I wonder if this is some character flaw in us, or is this a trait that people in shock and devastation project to hide our pain. You’re right, we’d make a great book!
Sue, I am so sorry that your husband hasn’t made the move home. We went to our first counseling session yesterday with a new counselor and he told my husband that it takes, on average, 6mos to 2yrs to get over the emotional attachment part of the affair and that’s with no contact with the OP!!!!!! If there is continued contact then it can take even longer and may not end ever, in which the marriage will then fail. I was totally depressed, as my husband works with her and we can’t really afford for him to quit his job without finding something comparable. And with the workforce the way it is, we may have to wait a long time for him to find as good of a job as he has, unless the OP quits! Anyway, the counselor had some good things to say and gave us a few marriage “tests” to take and we have another appt for next Thurs. He wants to see us weekly and then separately also. He wants to focus on our communication skills as a couple and talk about the affair in sessions and then move on from there. I think he sees $$$$ in his future from how screwed up we are!!! ha ha.
My husband travels for work and this was when he would be able to talk freely with the OP so when he left today for Iowa, I am in a panic. Not so much that he will talk to her now, because I don’t think he will, but more that him leaving brings back so much pain of the memories of before. I need to get past this. We had a fight last night about this. At the end he said ” What do you want from me?” I said I want what you can’t give me, I want for you to guarantee that you won’t start up with her again and that you won’t WANT to. He said ok I guarantee it. I don’t want to start anything with her again. I wan’t this to be over as much as you do. I want to move forward. We made up this morning before he left, but I feel so deflated. Hopeless in some ways. We all hope that our situations are going to be the ones that work out. That our husbands will be the men that we thought we married and do the right thing and build happiness again with us. Are we all fooling ourselves? Can we really move on after all this hurt? 30 yrs from now, are we going to be blogging about flashbacks and obsessive thoughts? I can’t do that. I hope this counselor can help us move on together. He also said to me “So you have major trust issues then?” I said absolutely and although I think my husband has now been upfront and I can see pretty much everything, I still have my doubts. When that will end, one can only know. Well, that’s my story for another day, I will try to chat tonight and would love to chat with you all if you can. Take good care, MS
Hi All!
Gosh, reading your posts has helped me SO MUCH. We haven’t had any arguements since Sunday morning. He’s been very nice, helpful and I honeslty think he’s trying very hard to make ammends. The problem I have is I think the reality of what he did has been setting in daily and now that the anger is subsiding, I feel sooo depressed. I actually have a Dr. appoinment tomorrow and I want to talk about going on an anti-depressant. My therapist doesn’t think I need one. She thinks these feelings are very NORMAL from what I’ve been through. I also have a family history of depression and so I sorta lean that way regardless. Has anyone taken one since discovering the affair? I hate taking medication of any kind but I am so worried that I can’t just snap out of this.
He tells me he loves me, and I don’t believe it. Or, maybe I don’t WANT to believe it becuase then I let myself be vulnerable again, only to get hurt again. I know I’ve built a huge wall around my heart since he did this to me. I feel like he doesn’t realize the lies are what have damaged me the most.
My therapist is getting me the book “Not Just Friends”. I can’t remember who read it, but I decided to read it. Any other reading suggestions that can help?
Shennie – I think I am totally at the point also that do I really love HIM, or do I love the DREAM of growing old with a family intact? I think it’s the second and that worries me. I know I would be OK without him but something won’t let me give up. The constant feeling of uncertainty and confusion about my own feelings is making me physically ill. I just feel like there are no tears left sometimes.
Sorry I sound so morbid today, I hope tomorrow is better. It has to be. I have to be strong. You all keep me going and give me hope.
Things are difficult here at the moment particularly with my 18 year old daughter.She is a fragile young woman and has taken a severe beating over this as it was her who discovered my infidelity.
There has been little communication and she is missing school and is very down.For myself I have done a lot of work this past week or so and re-alise that my own self worth was a major issue here and how I never re-alised someone could need me that much.I read here often of ??how could do this’if you really loved and cared for the people in your life?
I have no simple answer but know that it was to do with me and my issues and not theirs.
Healing will take a long time this I know but I am glad I have been discovered as I can now not only stop being so selfish but try to exorcise the reasons I allowed this self will to determine my actions.
I do believe that these moments are life defining and I know I will emerge a better person it just kills me to see the harm I have done to others.
It is possible to be sorry and to ensure that you never do this again ??I must go forward from here but would give anything to turn back the clock.
MS – I just read your post and I feel the same way about not wanting to be kicking myself 30 years from now asking myself the question “why did I stay with this guy?” Are we kidding ourselves? They all seem to say the same things to “make it u” to us. The same comments. I asked my husband the other day, “why won’t you ever cheat on me again?” and his response, “because I won’t”. What I wanted to hear was something like “Because I love YOU and would never dream of hurting you again, etc.”…….see, this is why I don’t think I can do this. A part of him seems very genuine and remorseful, but can these men (or women) ever truly change???? Also, at one point I asked him if he was in love with 2 people and he said, “Is that possible?” I wanted a “No, of course not” Now, he denys loving her and says he loved BEING with her. What the heck is that? It’s a man trying to backtrack in my opinion.
I would love to meet all of you someday. I hope we don’t lose contact!
Finally got to the computer to check the postings. Thanks for your words of encouragement. I slipped though. After my husband came over Sunday and said he wanted to move back and I gave boundaries, I still have not heard from him. A dear friend suggested I had shut him down by giving stipulations and I should once again call him to open the door. I have been such a doormat for so long I thought the boundaries were good and showing some backbone finally. Other friends cheered. What did I do? I called him when I swore I wouldn’t. I hate myself for slipping once again. How can he take me seriously if I try to detach and then become needy? Of course he had his phone turned off so I had to leave a message. So much for trying to be tough. Did I say I hate myself? I have done everything I possibly can and now I am second guessing myself. Bottom line, if he truly wants to come back then he will regardless of how guilty he feels. He will find a way to break it off with her. (he said he needed help and didn’t know how) I hate this obsessing. Some days are better than others and today I am very weak.
I agree someimes we may be focusing on the disapointment of losing our future and being fearful. This could be a big portion of our misery. However, I do love my husband and want him to come back. I think the love is diminishing and that is good because the hearache lessens. Interesting how so many people describe their husbands as a mess, and remorseful and crying, etc. Sounds like my husband. They think they are so unique. They should be reading these blogs so they can see how many people share their situation. Vincent, I like your writing, it gives me hope that my husband is returning. Actions speak louder than words though and he still hasn’t called after saying he would and wanted to return. Disappointment, hope, disapointment, hope. What a cycle. I am so sick of it. Hope this weekend is better than last. God Bless you all. Jean
MS Your right that we are not here to say horrible things about our spouses but we are here to understand why were here and to find understanding, not that I have never had some choice words for him because I have and he earned it quite frankly. Yes the $$$$ signs Im sure are part of it, I could never afford it and I have found that through time you work through things in our own ways, read read that can help alot to educate ourselves on human behavior in general. I am starting a book I read a long time ago about kids called Dare to Discipline, I think that even though it relates to kids its a clear message of how we define the things that go on, like you Jean how you said you broke down and called and how you thought maybe you had too many strong borders. but you are only falling back and questioning yourself because it didnt have the immediate outcome you wished for but it doesnt mean you didnt do the right thing. Like telling the kid he cant have any candy so he wails and wails so you are tired of listening and you break down and say ok just a little piece and of course the wailing stops, you have solved the immediate problem but at the same time you have caused a bigger problem for next time this happens, so dont be down on yourself Jean because you didnt get the results you wanted now doesnt mean you wont eventually and if for some reason you dont it does not necessarily mean it was you who did something wrong, you could have done something totally different than you did and still had the same results, there are no easy answers really you just have to be true to yourself either way to be happy in the end with or without them.
Liz as much as we hate to cry, crying does help it allows us to vent and let it out and can sometimes be the best medicing, I know it doesnt seem like it at the time and can also be very physically draining as well but if you watch your patterns after you have a so called bad bout you gain a renewed strength, its people that hold it in and dont allow it to come out that end up in worse shape in my opinion.
Something that I think we all have to realize is that first and foremost it will NEVER leave your relationship even if you reconcile, it will always remain, you have to decide now if your strong enough to live with it and move past it because if you cant then dont waste the next however many years torturing yourself and your family. There is no easy wasy stay or go, I know a couple that early in their relationship before they had kids that she cheated on him it was a very short and only sexual affair but he chose to stay with her even though she thought he should move on he didnt want to, They stayed together for another twenty years and this always hung over their relationship no matter what, they had kids and a good life but he always held it against her and she lived with it because she thought she deserved it for what she did so put up with having it held over her, in the end he ended up cheating on her and the marraige eventually broke up, so it was unfortunate that they didnt break up years earlier , so if your spouse is truly sorry then dont hold it over them forever because it will doom your relationship. everyone does make mistakes but without a real second chance there really was no hope. You absolutely cannot recover with it over your heads. So if you are giving the person a second chance then give it and take your chances if it happens again end it immediately. Either way there is always going to be some kind of hurt and pain.
I want to tell you all that if you really listen to Vincent ironically and not his remorse or sadness but the real truth behind his words then you will realize the realities. When he mentioned all the things he hears like if you really loved me then how could you do this to me, understand that your partner has not thought of the fact of who will be hurt and was not done purposefully , it is the selfishness that vincent spoke of that doesnt allow a person to see all the side effects of what they are doing in the moment but a time does come when it all comes out and I do believe Vincent is truly sorry as he stopped all contact right away and is absolutely acknowledging the damage to others, I have seen that in very few others that are spoke of here sadly and for that I dont feel that many of these relationships will work in the end but all have to go through the motions to arrive at a place where they can and will move on its the point of acceptance that the dream is done and that is the hardest point to come to because even when it is over the dream for some stupid reason still remains and thats a real catch 22.
To Vincent, read and research for your daughter, one of mine was older also and school was the first thing to go down and only gets worse, the sooner your wife and you resolve and find a way to work through this together the sooner you can both help her because the only way you can is to take the stand together or you daughter will not likely recover and will affect many of her relationships to come that is a very crucial age and you must be vulnerable to her and show her you are human and that you are truly sorry and do whatever she needs you to do to make it right, ask her and dont stop til you get an answer, own your part in it and never blame anyone else and she will learn to own her own actions also in her own future.I do commend you for acknowledging yourself here and stopping it all when found, if you are strong enough to do that I believe in time your marraige will survive but it doesnt mean it wont be easy.
Jean I must repeat again do not blame yourself for being strong and standing up for what you believe, it is not wrong and another action really could have the same results, you know sometimes I think they take those opportunities to use as a scape goat to put that blame back to control you and make you feel like if you did this or that it would be different, but would it really, it isnt about what you did or didnt do, its about what they are doing or not doing dont ever forget that , if he had been doing what he should have to begin with then you wouldnt have done what you did and you cant beat yourself up about it. so please dont put this back on yourself you dont deserve to do this to yourself. just keep telling yourself that .
Quick check in with eveyone. I think my husband finally found a counselor today. Yesterday was a total bummer on that front……he is begging for help in how to move forward and this guy insisted that he talk about his relationship with his mother while growing up and how that impacts his need to please her now…..give me a break! I have a degree and am trained in this stuff and can tell you that I really believe there is a time and place for everything. At these crisis points in our lives action matters. Psychotherapy can come later if needed.
The woman today sounds like she was much more interactive and helpful. He came here right afterwards and has not looked that good in months…really. He was so relieved. It then came out that he told her last night that the feelings are just not there. I’m writing this because I can not really believe it…..when is the other shoe going to drop? But he seems much more grounded and confident. Maybe he really is beginning to move to another stage like Marlene had described.
As always, time will tell. Hopefully I will be able to provide the time. We are definately on the day to day plan right now.
Headed out for a bit with some friends, hoping to laugh. Laughter is good!
Sue, that’s a huge step for him and you! Hopefully with a few more sessions with this counselor he will see that he needs to just make a clean break from her. Have a great time tonight. Laughter is the best medicine! Take Care MS
Just got back and had to write. These friends are the best. I haven’t laughed like this in months. Literally! And the subject matter was not very funny…..just an ability to laugh at our own foibles and take life at face value. Bright women with a unified goal to live for themselves and better the world they live in as best they can in the meantime.
Again……..WOW!!
So I got home and my husband was thrilled I had such a good time. He still looks better than he has in ages. This counselor was soooo good for him. He is going ‘home’ to further the discussion of loss of feelings. I hope we can keep on this track as we both felt so good tonight. Mostly about ourselves and then about each other. And this is after he had to deal with the nightmare of homework and bed with our kids. Which is good because if we do not work out he has that all to himself on a few nights a week. And he knows it.
On that note he brought to light the fact that we co-parented through the homework and bed routine two nights this week and it worked out well. He is right. We were fighting against each other in the past and are so much more aligned now. I hope we can have the chance to work this through.
I hope I am not driving you readers crazy with my roller coaster. I am honest and it is what it is. I am still committed to not doing this nasty thing for very long…it is now day to day. But today was a REALLY good day. And I’m taking it. Smiling is not a bad thing.
Thinking of you all.
Sue – how is going today? Not so good here. I couldn’t do my full week of not fighting about the OP. I went 4 days and then this morning, whamo. I think it had to do with me going to the doctor yesterday. I had a full physical, my blood pressure is up (it hasn’t been normal since May, when I discovered his affair). I told her the whole story, and she talked me into a full blood test for all diseases, etc. To be on the “safe side”. It’s humiliating to think I have to #1 go through this becuase of HIM, and #2, pay for this (my insurance isn’t the best) becuase of HIM and the OP. It’s so humiliating and awful. I know it triggered everything again and opened up a lot of wounds (that are still very fresh!).
So, enough of my sob story. Today is a new day, I have 2 amazing kids and I have to focus on what is GOOD in my life. I feel like if I am depressed, it gives him (and the OP) the power over me. He’s just one person in a world of many and he made the bad choices, not me. I have to think positively.
I also love my friends and they are my rock. We laugh all the time and whenever I go out with them, I feel so much better when I get home! (and he’s jealous of that relationship with them, and he knows they all know what he did, and so I think he feels threatend by them in some way, like they are going to “corrupt” me or talk me into leaving him). I will never give them up for him and he know this. Not that he expects me to, or has ever told me this, it’s just a feeling I get from him. Snide remarks, etc.
Anyway, enough of me, have a great weekend EVERYONE!!
Liz/Sue and all
Hang in there, brighter days are ahead. Im sorry Liz for you to have to go through that humiliation,thats another thing that does come with this that is often overlooked or ignored and its good that your are checking it all out to be safe. I hope all is ok.
Keep those friends close, its through times like this that you really find out who your real friends are and sometimes you would be surprised at who is behind you and who is not. It really does help to keep them. Thinking of you all and hoping the best the future can bring,
Liz,
I’m feeling good today, but he has to give me something else…will he? I meet him in a half hour for lunch and then counseling. What a downer it will be if he has nothing to give me. I do feel positive.
I’m so sorry you had to go through that. When I first found out I ended up with Lyme disease. I discovered the lyme because my body and face broke out in this horrible rash and then the left side of my face went numb. Talk about scary! I went into the dr.’s office and could barely talk through my tears. Luckily my dr. was very supportive and comfortable with me. He checked in a few times after that and that helped. Especially since I had to be on steriods…….talk about crazy. All while my husband was telling me I was creating a crisis to get his attention! Those were dark days.
I’m thinking you have absolutely NOTHING to be humiliated about. Angry, but humiliated? You did nothing wrong. And yes, there are physical responses to this kind of intense stress. That is why it is so important for us to forge through and take care of ourselves. I had a really insightful moment for you and just lost it! Too much going on in my head too…..
Bottom line…..take care of yourself. Focus on how you will help yourself and your children to be happy no matter what happens and NOT on how you husband and the OP continue to affect you life. They will affect it less if you can do the first. And I know you know that I have a hard time following this advice myself, but it does help to be constantly reminded of it as it is real and true.
Well, off to see where the next day, week, year? of my life may be headed……..
Shennie, Sue and All – thanks. I am praying all is OK. My doctor was sooo supportive of me. She thought it was wonderful I was being proactive and nobody in the office made me feel humiliated. IT was all self-induced on my part. Now, today, looking back, I am proud of myself for going and taking care of my own health, for ME. Something I would never normally do so maybe I am becoming stronger each day!
Sue – don’t ya wish HE would have had the rash and not you! (ha)Again, the dark days can only make us stronger and come out into the LIGHT!
Shennie – I totally know about finding out who your friends are. Just two quick examples: one of my husband’s good friends, actually confronted me and told me that he totally disagreed with my husband’s actions and even thought he was his friend, he thought he was totally wrong and that he considered me to be a great friend, and that him and his wife would always welcome me in their home and still be my friends, no matter what the outcome. So, I was so pleasantly surprised by this guy becuase I never knew he had that in him! On the flip side, a super-close girlfriend of mine, who’s husband is good friends with my husband, sorta shut me out immediately cause she didn’t want to “rock the boat” between the two guys. That’s when I knew how deep our friendship ran. So, people I thought I could count on let me down and people I never expected to stick up for me, did!! life is funny that way!
Liz
You hit the nail on the head because I had the same experience, a couple who were good friends with us both and her and I good friends apart from them, well they also had six kids too so it was a real hoot when we all got together anyway as soon as it happened she would not even say hello, so I just didnt bother with her, about a year late apparently she was doing the same and left her husband with the kids to be with a guy who was 23yrs old and livin at home with mom and dad, I saw him and he looks like such a kid, it was then I understood why she shut me out, then there were others that I never expected to be were there and are to this day so some good does come out of it too i guess. Im sure all with be fine and you have alot to be proud of
Sue I am sorry you had to go through that how awful and that he thought you were doing it for attention or whatever i am sure made it all worse for you on top of what you were already going through. I hope your lunch and counselling went well and that he had something to give you. Keep us posted
Well, after such a good day yesterday it was hard for me to get down to ugly reality today. So counseling was just sort of ‘nice’. We all acknowledged it as such and agreed that he is much better (not good, but better) after his session yesterday. I also got a referral for myself and have an appointment set up for the week after next. No real plan or decisions, just a lot of honest talk and laying things out on the table. In its weird way it is helpful.
I feel sort of numb right now. He came over tonight and stayed longer than any of us (including him) thought. But it was just because and it was good (and I think he is facing ugliness going ‘home’ so it was easy to stay.
He helped me talk through my current anxiety a bit and I do feel less anxious about the weekend. Things with him and the OP are not good and he thinks that is the way to work through an action plan that he will be able to keep in the future. It sounds like he is being somewhat and mostly honest in hopes that she will come to some decisions herself without him having to slam the hammer and feel even more guilty. This part is hard for me as I do not think it is realistic, but would love it to be so. I think (but don’t know) that I am beyond him needing to proclaim his love for me by being mean to her. That season has come and gone. If there is hope for us I think it is in it ending for good and within a time frame that does not lose me entirely. No more and no less. The how is extremely unclear.
I also think that the more comfortable I am with whatever way things go, the harder it is to put so much energy into waiting. It is sooo draining. But when he is ‘on’ with me and the kids it is so rejuvenating. I do want that in my life. The risk continues to be so big.
We’ve talked a lot about what has happened in each stage of this and I think he does understand that I was not ‘making a crisis’ in the beginning. But that I was also asking for more than I would have if the situation was not so dire. This is a growing and learning process. It will serve us well in the end, but the damage that continues to be done is stuff I still wish would stop. I can stop it or he can. And in that lies the difficulty. Our current needs for ourselves are in quite a bit of conflict with what would help us as a couple get through this. Our timing is off and I guess that is more the norm than not.
I had to back up again tonight and focus on me. That helped with the anxiety of the weekend. The fact is that I am busy working most of the weekend and I really do not have much time myself. But I am prone to obsession about what he is doing when not here. This is not helpful for any of us. Balancing the reality of time with the feelings of what is happening is almost impossible.
Our counselor is worried about the damage that is being done to me in the meantime that I am not aware of. I am too. But who could know until I am able to assess it when the cloud clears?
I asked him tonight if there was any realistic way this would end soon. He said ‘absolutely’ but also that he does not know. YUCK!! I have to say it is great and also disconcerting to have a husband who is gaining so much insight…and liking it. It leaves me more unsure about how to proceed while giving more info to assess and determine how I should proceed. Listen to myself. That is what I keep saying. Unfortunately I am getting mixed answers and they all still revolve around the ‘what if?’. I guess that means I am not done yet as I still see enough hope and strength in myself to continue…..for another day.
If any of you have read this far…..I have a bit more. On the friend front. I totally agree on the ‘surprises’. I think I’ve said this before. That part of this is truly good for me. However, I have to see my oldest friend (31 year friendship) on Monday and she is the only one who has run up one side of me and down the other for hanging in there. I don’t quite know how to deal with it. I am so not in a position of defending myself…not do I want to. But I don’t like the prospect of not being honest. I’m thinking we just really can’t have a good friendship right now. She has said very clearly that her passion is because she loves me and has no tolerance for me being treated this way. That is hard to argue with. I know my motives, but how I am being treated is what I struggle with as well. It just is not black and white, but she does not see how those things can fall into the same issue.
All responses are good! Thanks to all. Liz and Shennie, thanks for hanging in there with me.
was able to log on to the chat room tonight…it was really good. do it if you can/want to. i think i found the problem i was having with it. your password can not be associated with your log in……..not sure, but it was how i finally got in. dr. bob was working on it, so it may have been something else..just a thought.
Sue
I really feel bad for you that you continue to be in limbo so to speak. It seems he is not ending anything because well he hasnt had to so far. Dont be too hard on your friend she probably does have your best interests at heart but because it is not her heart it feels different, its the giving advice thing and not being able to do it yourself because she may not be able to do that either. I am sad for you because it almost seems that he is married to the OP not you and waiting for her to leave him or something. Its like a game for him and keeps you both in some kind of limbo. My hopes and prayers are with you for whatever is best for you as I am not here to judge you as only you know whats right for you.
Shennie,
I agree. Wish it weren’t so. Except that I don’t think it is a game for any of us. The heat is on. We’ll see. It is up to me to continue to be in this mess this way and I don’t think I have much more in me.
He wants to be out of it too, but is in the swirl about what that means. And, why wouldn’t she be out of it???? Again, we will see.
Thanks for your kind words. I don’t see judgement….only reality of the situation.
Sue
Im glad you didnt take offence to anything I said, the last thing I would ever want to do is make anyone here feel worse. I know its hard enough. Hopefully he will figure things out and you can begin to rebuild your life. Just start doing that in whatever way you can in the meantime so you dont think too much if you know what i mean. I;ll be prayin for you
Vincent… I read your words with and wonder what is it that made you see what you were doing to your family. All I want now is for my husband to put in the same effort as you seem to be. How do you handle it when your wife doubts your efforts. What can I say to my husband when he thinks he is doing the right thing but I still don’t know if he is being truthul. After all he has been telling me lies and half truths for over 2 years. I would be interested to hear what it is like from your side.
Well he finally returned on Tuesday night with a long explanation of where he was. Only he knows if that is the truth. We went away for a few days with our daughter and enjoyed the time together. When I got home there was a note in the mailbox suggesting that he spent Monday with the OP to which he denied. Got no idea who the note was from but it has thrown me in a spin. The OP and her whole family are all very strange so I guess it was from her or one of the family trying to mess with my head. That is the only explanation that I have because if it was from anyone else there would have been some truth in it and he swears he was not with her. The lies hurt more than the infedelity.
Sue, it’s hard when you tell people about the affair, because friend or no friend, you really never know what their response will be, will they just listen and not judge your husband, will they be angry with you for sticking it out, will they go on the “attack” in your honor etc. Plus, when you and your husband reconcile and you move on and forgive, they may not be able to and there will always be that scar in their relationship. Then when you want to get together with these people you husband will be uncomfortable and add to the stress of things. This is partly why I didn’t tell anyone but my best friend and my husbands parents. I knew my BF would just listen and be supportive. She cares for my husband too and he is the type of guy that people would NEVER believe would do this. His parents and my best friend were SHOCKED to say the least and didn’t really believe it until I told them he confessed. It is totally out of character for him. I told my inlaws partly because I needed them and partly because I knew my husband was going to need them. My MIL and I are very very good friends and talk daily. There was no way to hide it from her. My husband was little put out that I told her, he thought I was just trying to get them on my side. (A comment that came from the OP no doubt) My MIL made it very clear she would never allow that person in her home and told him that he was always welcome, but he would have to come alone. My MIL is not someone to be reckoned with. She can hold a grudge! Anyway, my point I guess was that while getting support from friends and family is great and sometimes the only resource we have, it’s a double edged sword.
In your situation things were different though, because he moved out with her. So everyone was going to know eventually. In my case, he never left so it wasn’t people finding out he moved out, just me having to bring up in conversation, “Oh by the way, my husband cheated on my and blah, blah, blah….” Hang in there Sue, he seems to be moving closer to coming home, although, I still don’t get why he just doesn’t say “Bye, I am going home and I love my wife” plain and simple. So much better for you and him and really the OP too. She would not be able to interpret anything incorrectly. She would have to accept it and she may put up a fuss, but if he is really committed to coming home, then what else would there be left to say. I know this is probably nothing that you haven’t thought yourself, but sometimes it takes someone else saying it to make you think. I wish your counselor would just tell him, if you want this marriage to work and you want the healing to start, you need to end it now!
I enjoyed chatting with you the other night! Hope to do that again soon. MS(tryingtotrust) on the chat.
Wow thats so weird cause my m/l also said she would never let this girl in her home, now they are all one big happy family, i never see or talk to them after 26yrs as a fam and we were also really close , I was the favorite d/l . Its amazing how things can change , hope that doesnt happen for you MS. It didnt happen here til after about a year and I was surprised when it did cause it greatley affected their relationship with their grandchildren.In fact we were told not to come for xmas after the kids had been there every year since birth, they were shocked but it was because him,her and their new baby were coming so they didnt want us there because the kids didnt even know they had a kid yet and this was the beginning of his hiding out for the next couple years. The only thing I think you can really count on in the end is you, becareful putting yourselves out there too much. But every situation is different so we each can only deal with whatever comes our way.
Shennie, my lawyer told me the same thing, basically blood is thicker than water etc. My husband can’t have anymore kids because we took care of that after my son was born. His OP told him that she didn’t want any kids of her own, how convient since she knew he couldn’t have any, but he doesn’t want anymore, I know that. They would never deny my kids coming to their home, but I am sure as time went on they would accept the inevitable. Although my MIL is pretty disgusted. She wonders if she did something in his upbringing to bring on this selfish behavior. We are in therapy and have session this Wed. so I suppose alot of our communication skills are going to be analyzed. Yesterday, he was quiet and brooding. A trait he exhibits when he is in his “mood” about the OP. I asked him about it and he says he was just crabby and tired from his trip the day before. I can only accept what he tells me I suppose. Even though inside I feel like it’s just that he didn’t want to be with us. Each day is a challenge for me to stop reading into his moods and just take them at face value. Very hard to do knowing the history of things now.
Today I asked him about a lunch that he had with her and a client a few months ago, that I found out about after his last encounter with her. I needed to know why he HAD to take her and this client to lunch and when would that be happening again. Which clients might that happen with and how to avoid it. I was met with anger again, didn’t want to talk about it, I keep bringing past stuff up, etc. So right now I am blogging, and he is watching football and playing online poker. Maybe in his email, or somehow communicating with her, who knows. I have resigned myself to the fact that I cannot control his actions and that he has to decide what he wants and take the consequences. We have been round and round so many times it’s getting really old and tiring. We cannot last another round, at least I can’t, so if there is a next time it will be the end for us, this I know.
Do any of you feel with each lie and deception, a little part of your heart gets broken off and you get dull to the pain. Like numbness sets in? Each time I have taken him back, I feel more distant from him rather than closer. I get stronger too. Stronger to just accept it being over. I don’t know if it’s because I have had time to accept the situation and figure out I will be okay alone or if it’s that I am not as interested in him staying anymore. I know I love him, I know I want us to work things out and stay married, I just don’t want to be hurt and made a fool of anymore. Anyway, hope everyone is having a great Sunday. Take care, MS
MS….oh so know what you mean. Obviously my situation is different, but the feelings are the same. I am at a place where I feel more numb. I don’t know what that means. We had a really nice time tonight.
I don’t know how to express tonight in short terms. It has always been my downfall that I can not be brief. I will try. We were honest and hard…..and most importantly, calm. He feels mostly (but not completely) done with the OP. All for real and good reasons. We even talked about the fantasy vs. reality piece. He is not totally clear on that yet, but a good part of the way there. She does not seem done in any way. This bothers me for a variety of reasons, but we talked about that too.
I’m bumping up against the end wall and he knows it. The numbness and self protection has kicked in again in a way that he feels and can acknowledge. So it is still day to day. And this does not even begin to touch what might happen if we have a chance. We both know that.
As far as telling other people go….all I can say is that all you say, MS, is true. But I have had overwhelming support for us to work this out without the judgement. And we have been together socially with our closest friends on New Year’s Eve only to find out that we can do this. We talked about it as a group (as strange as that may sound……not a group counseling thing, just real and forthright) and we are all so OK with how we each feel. The feelings have a range, but there is not the uncomfortable feelings that I would have expected. It is amazing what mature individuals can pull out. I’m not sure I would so ‘big’ if the shoe were on the other foot.
Great Sundays sometimes mean hellish Mondays. We’ll see…….as always.
MS……love the chat room. I had lots of laughs the other night on top of the serious stuff. Thanks for that. It helps.
MS
Well if she cant have any kids then likely will not be able to form that kind of relationship with them anyways. And if you M/L is wondering what she did as a parent or whatever and trying to take a resp for it somehow then she prob wont bail on you, and I do hope for you that doesnt happen. Its weird cause as for my ex in laws I havent seen them in person since last xmas and before that was the same. Even so I still do things for them for who I am in this life, send bday, mother day xmas occasion gift cards etc. its just who I am and just because they have treated me this way I choose to not be like them. Maybe in time when I feel I have made my point about who I am i wont bother with them anymore because well they havent earnedit or are much worth it at this point. But I will at least walk away knowing I did my part. I actually feel sorry for them that they dont have it in them to stick up for their feelings or have their own opinion or values really. it is truly their loss, I do think they know it as there have been a few occasions where comments were made to indicate it. But I think they are doing what he wants them to do and not what makes them happy inside and well thats their choice.It sounds like yours its ok and I hope it stays that way but just protect yourself somehow for you anyway.
Each lie makes you more numb and more resilient to believing anything they have to say. thats the prob with lies when you begin to not beiieve much of anything they say, and even if you just listen everything becomes very skeptical. That makes it really hard to move on with them. For me it got to the point where everything was a lie and it wasnt just to me but soon became everyone including her, she was willing to not look at it in her desperation for him. and I think it will come back to haunt her because he was able to get away with it and will likely treat her that way come the future. Whoever said it earlier about the lying being worse than the infidelity was right because you really dont have a clue what you are dealing with and if its a lie then what your doing also becomes a lie, so sad really. and your not the fool he is
MS your last paragraph could have been written by me so I know exactly how you feel. I had a great session with my therapist today. My challenge from her is to take a back step on trying to fix things and create a life for myself that will work with him or without him. I have to stop snooping through his things to look for proof, as she said, he always slips up and I find out anyway. She has given me a chart to fill out every day to state what sort of day I have had. I have to stop putting my life on hold waiting for him to make up his mind. Have had a good day today and achieved so much. Like you, this is his last chance and if he goes he goes and I will be okay. In fact I know I will be much better than him even if he is with the OP. He hasn’t worked through any of his issues where as I have taken the opportunity to discover a lot about myself. My guess is while I am facing this challenge of creating a life for myself I will see him in a different light and see that he really hasn’t got anything to offer me. Just stay positive and look for fun things to do and be happy around him, even if you are not just act happy.
It has been very helpful for me to have people around that know how I feel and can read their stories, it also frees me up to enjoy my friends as friends and not have to talk all this stuff with them.
MS – everything you wrote, is EXACTLY how I feel in your last paragraph. When I took my husband back for the first time and we decided to “work it out”, I look back now, and I was in total shock mode still. I was scrambling, like I was in “overdrive”. I was editing my words, I was making dinners, we planned “dates” and picnics, we played cards with friends, I dressed “sexier”…all these things to win him back (that’s how I totally view it now). I was doing everything possible to figre out where “I” went wrong (instead of totally looking at it as HIS mistake, and HIS character flaw!). I was still angry, hurt, disgusted, etc. but I was also trying my hardest to work on the marriage at the same time. I didn’t want to lose my family most of all.
OK, now we speed up a few months and I discover, all the while I am doing this, he’s still calling her, telling her he loves her, and cheating on me. They took a trip together, went to parties together, dates, etc. So, what did I do, I filed for divorce once again. Then, the weakness spot in me, saw his tears, heard his sob story about how his “head was messed up” (seems to be such a common response of a cheater!), and how reality was setting in for him and he wanted his wife and family and not the OP. So, I was once again, relieved of not getting a divorce BUT, this time, I don’t do all the above in the first paragraph of my blog! Why? Cause I am NUMB for one, and 2, if he’s STILL cheating, I am not going to get screwed over again emotionally, and 3 I am putting it “all on his actions”. Right now, I view it as he has gotten a second chance (most people would have been GONE) And, guess what, yes, he’s physically home, I have no proof of him cheating on me, but I have lost so much respect for him and I honestly, have become much stronger and I like myself better than I like him. So, he has a different wife this time around, and I think the changes in me intimidate him! He sees my conficence, my weight loss, I still go out with friends, and I also think now he’s worried I might cheat on him! (I would never, but he eludes to this probably out of guilt).
So, I am right where you are at. He has totally chipped away at me little by little, lie by lie. I am the same way, I am not interested in our marriage at all like I was 6 months ago. I see his selfish nature for reality now. I never thought he would risk me and the kids and risk our family for the OP, but he did. And it was a conscience choice. And his comments that used to hold water with me about “I didn’t know where my head was at” or, “I wanted something for ME”, etc. my sympathy level is gone. I might agree with his statements, but I don’t feel sorry for him. I feel sorry for me, the kids, and all the people that he hurt along the way. I don’t feel sorry for the OP becuase she was just as selfish as him. She didn’t care that 2 little kids lives would be effected, and she didn’t care that the guy she was sleeping with was married at all.
Can you tell I am NUMB? ha!!!
And Shennie and everyone else – my MIL and I were extremely close for almost 20 years. I was the favorite DIL. When the news came out about my husband and the OP, his whole family took his side. Nobody ever called me to see how the kids and I were doing. My MIL is dependent on my husband emotionally and I think she figured she couldn’t get on his bad side, she might need him one day to take care of her…(my opinion). Yes, it hurts but I learned I can only count on ME and that I don’t need them in my life, if that’s how they treat me. Beleive me, I am over it.
Last thing – my lawyer told me “guilt dies fast and turns to anger when there is an affair”. I totally agree. Anger is a defense mecanism for what they did.
Things progressing slowly ,kids not really talking to me but my wife wants to put this behind us (how lucky am i?)the OP has contacted me in response to my wife’s texts but I have told her I never want to see her again.She is a woman scorned but I have made my decision I never really knew how much my wife loved and needed me nor how much I love and need her.I hope the kids will come around as they witness my wife and I getting on with life.
Hey all, I guess this is not really my place, but since no one was in the chat room at the time to moderate, I feel I should at least inform people that it really isn’t nice to make another person feel alienated or abused as a result of the choices they make. I met a woman on there today who cheated on her husband in a cyberaffair and was blasted by more than one person. She,like Vincent above,is trying to make amends and is truely sorry for what pain she caused. She and her husband are in therapy and are trying to work things out. Aren’t we supposed to be here to support eachother, not judge? I can’t imagine that it was any of you wonderful people that have been blogging here, but if you see someone ganging up on another, please try to intervene. We have all had enough pain to last a lifetime don’t ya think?
I just had to say something on her behalf. I know we all have some bitterness toward our cheating spouses and their OP, but lets turn the bitterness into something productive, like using our own experiences to help others in similar situations. If the people who attacked her would have listened to what she had to say they might have learned some things about their own spouses and how they felt. I certainly learned a few things. Hope you all are doing well. Take care, MS
MS….I whole heartedly agree with you note. Wasn’t there, but would say the same thing if I read you correctly.
I’m finding that my husband is doing better now that he is beginning to deal with his shame and guilt. I wonder, from what you’ve said if that is a good part of the problem with your h. Just a shot.
I’m in holding mode again, but much better today. I got some sleep last night and things look better. We’ll see, but it certainly helps to take care of me. What a hard thing to do!
Hope others are having better days as well.
Hi all –
I am doing better today, yesterday I got a call from the doctor, and all health tests were NEGATIVE!!! (whew) I can breathe now……I’ve been exercising daily and trying to eat better and get more sleep. Basically I’ve just been trying to get my health back to where it was prior to last May (discovery!). I’ve been reading the book “Not Just Friends” and wow is it very insightful! It really makes you feel like your thoughts and your spouses are so NORMAL! It says it is very common for the betrayed spouse to feel very ambivilant (MS and Sue, if I reacall, I think we can relate to this) where you become sorta numb to your spouses actions, etc. I am in that stage completely. Is this marriage worth saving? Can I get over the affair? Is he still cheating behind my back? And…if he ISN’T, does it matter now after all the damage he’s caused? UGH.
It also shed some light on the WAY that the affair ended. It makes a big difference if the cheater was busted, or if they confessed themselves. In both instances with my situation, I caught my husband. The book says if the affair doesn’t die a natural death or if the spouse doesn’t end it on their own terms, chances are, they will continue contact. That is exactly what I am nervous about. Anyone have a situation where your spouse willingly confessed???