Learn from these real life extramarital affair coaching scenarios.
In the first section the person struggling with the marital infidelity summarizes the scenario or concern and what he/she would like to say to his/her cheating spouse.
I then outline some goals that help him/her break free from the affair.
The last and important section gets at shifting the focus away from the spouse/partner to him/her self. In other words, what does all this mean for the person on the receiving end of an extramarital affair? After that mental shift (which is NOT easy for someone in the pain and turmoil of perhaps losing one’s spouse, family, and home) I, the coach, offer phrases that he/she can relay to his/her spouse in a way that speaks directly of his/her concern and has the best chance of being heard and getting positive results.
Section 1: The “offended spouse” says:
It feels like it will never be over. Not until HE acknowledges what he did and is able to accept my forgiveness and show that he has changed the way he lives his live. I honestly want to have cordial relationship with him, but because he cannot “own” what he has done he continues to act like a jerk toward me when there is no reason for it. I don’t trust myself to pick another partner. I don’t want to put anymore energy into developing a new relationship with another man. It is hard to keep my relationships with my in-laws, though we are very fond of each other and they have been very supportive of me.
Section 2: Personal goals suggested by the coach:
- Shift focus from him and what he is not doing to declaring your own standards for a relationship.
- Learn to value your internal signals in relationships as having validity.
Section 3: What the affair means for the “offended spouse” and what he/she REALLY wants to say to his spouse/partner having the affair:
- This tension seems to drag on and on. I want to see an end. I need some hope.
- I want us to create a cordial relationship. I would want you to have that wish also.
- There are some standards I have for a relationship. I need to work on those ?” to let you know exactly what I’m talking about when I say that.
- I struggle with reading the signals from you (or other men). I doubt myself. I wonder if I can ever have a relationship where I feel peace.
What is your situation? Describe your situation. Let it flow. Don’t hold back. Then, ask yourself, “What does this marital mean for ME?” What impact does his/her extramarital affair have on my feelings, thoughts and actions? Then rehearse approaching your spouse/partner with phrases that convey the meaning and impact of the infidelity for YOU.
Joan – I first discovered it 6 weeks into it. I asked him to immediately move out (he did with her) and I filed for divorce. Within the next 2 weeks, we decided to go into counseling and attmept to reconcile. He told me he had ended the affair, and he moved backed in our house. He told me he would tell me of any and all contact on both sides. (he called her the very next day and the phone calls never quit). During the middle of summer I got suspicious (from his actions) and confronted him on several occasions. He denied everything all over again, and made me feel crazy and paranoid, etc. Finally, in Septemeber, we were driving home from a family vacation and his cell phone rang, it was her. I was horrified, and when we got home, I called my lawyer. (he said, it was a “mistake” her daughter hit his number that was programmed into her phone, etc. LIE, LIE, LIE). Then, when he got served with papers the second time, he cried, begged, pleaded and told me he would do anything it took to gain my trust. He said he told her he didn’t have any place for her in his life anymore and she said she couldn’t take the emotional rollercoaster and the back and forth relationship. And, that’s were it ended (or so I am told). Of course, I find it hard to beleive she has not tried calling him since September, or vise versa. So, I am in the same boat as so many of all of us, what to beleive? What to trust? I am just taking it day to day right now, watching his behavior, and working on myself to get healthier and stronger.
June – wow. we have so much in common. I am without answers also. He seemed so genuine in September about being willing to do anything to make this better. I totally agree with you that we can’t compete with a fantasy. Nobody can. Real life and real problems are what marriage is all about. Once they meet that OP and that OP treats them like gold (becuase they are just as selfish and are caught up in the romance aspect of it all), how can they ever look at us the same? I always feel like he compares me now to her. Once when we were in marriage counseling, he told the therapist he didn’t have to talk down to the OP because she was a “left brain” and I was a “right brain” person. Can you believe that!!! He has verbally abused me for 18 years, then had the nerve to tell the therapist that he NEEDED to talk to me this way and it wasn’t necessary to talk like that to the OP. That really infuriated me to say the least. And, he totally pushes me, then says, “you have no control”, you need “anger management”, etc. If you knew me, he is the only person on Earth who gets me upset. I am the most calm, level-headed easy going person in the world, until he antagonizes me. He slowly would put me down when we started dating, he would quit complimenting me, and give me negative comments. I honestly believe he did this since he has not self-esteem. Now I see him doing it to my kids and I don’t think I can take it anymore. UGH. I am in so much turmoil right now. Thanks for all your advice and it’s so good to know that I have everyone’s support.
Liz & June,
Your right. He does do that to make you feel less. Obviously from how you can articulate your feelings in writing you are quite intelligent. Maybe he feels inferior. Usually, at least in my case, I am much stronger and driven than my X and always pretty much ran the show in the home. He wanted me to do this because it was easier for him but he resented me for it. My X did it to my kids also but it did’nt really show up until lately. Now my teens are having problems with self esteem. It has caused some pretty big problems for me. I am also very calm and level headed but feel I was always being put to the test this last few months. Of course he sees you as the more demonstrative one of the two of you. He is at this point a family relative to you. You can both really be yourselves and no one is ever perfect. After a few years of living with the OW I bet he would be saying the same about her and you would be the one he can talk to. Leopards really don’t change their spots. Where my situation differs from most everyone here is that he left 3 months ago, the same day he told me he was not happy or in love anymore(up until then we had still continued our usual life, there were no big flags.), the same day I found out about the OW, and has never ever looked back. SHOCK!. He has never shown any regret but a lot of anger when he comes by to see the kids(which I no longer jump into). He seems to think now that he can live his life, la di da. He can live a few streets away with her and her kids, visit the kids here, be happy and friendly with me and just pretty much be Mr. Wonderful. I don’t want to free him though(or me apparently). I hate him for what he did and being so skilled in hiding everything until the day he left. He says to me the other day, being with her is like I’ve come home. Oh brother. 3 months into the romance and he’s home. I hope reality sets in soon. I would not take him back though. Life was getting to be just too miserable with him. My kids were stressed, I was stressed. One of you said what if you were to meet someone and he’s not nice or not good to your kids, etc. Can it be worse? My X did not respect me or his kids. They looked up to him and he failed them miserably. He let them down when he deceived us. I would at this point have to look hard for a man that(let’s see), LIES, CHEATS, DISRESPECTS ME, ETC. ETC. I would hope that I’ve learnt something from all of this and next time when I meet someone I would fend off the wrong person. He was by the way the right person for me for many years. We were the ideal couple, then came the kids, money issues, boredom and next came the OW. I call her the escape route.
As usual and as you have all said there are so many similarities – I don’t know if I can add anything new or different (and I am probably not only repeating things that have been said but also repeating myself) but I can certainly stand alongside all of you while we are going through variations of the same thing – my husband was very emotionally attached to the OW – why? some reasons he has shared include how much she needed him and how much he needed to be needed – she was battling breast cancer and had an (so she says) abusive husband – he said he was initially looking for a fling due to being depressed about all the aches and pains of getting older, worries about his health and feeling that I didn’t need him but then fell in love – we are in our fifties – he is a teacher and I am an administrator – she was one of his students’ moms – would you believe? he is a cool guy and all the kids and moms just gush over him – he just couldn’t turn down the opportunity I guess – when I found out last Feb. I immediately confronted him and we battled over the next 6 months because of his insistence on seeing her as a “friend” because he “just couldn’t abandon her – she had become so dependent on him” – she ended up filing a restraining order against her husband (she moved out with her daughter for a few weeks) and then filed for divorce – personally, I think she never expected me to keep him – I think she figured I would throw him out to her – he claims he always told her that he loved me and that he never made her any promises – who knows if that is true? as you have all said – it is soooo hard to trust again after being so deceived – he told me in Sept that he had cut off contact but planned to call her at some point to see how she was – he said he would tell me – well, when he started acting funny in Nov. I snooped and found that they had emailed each other so I confronted him – he apologized for deceiving me and wrote her a final email which she (as I have said before) answered with a truly venemous reply – I think the affair can be an addiction (he has battled smoking for years) or at least a habit that is hard to break – if you want to read some good stuff on the ambivalence that they feel when confronted by the spouse to give up the OP, read “Not Just Friends” by Shirley Glass – I guess that right now I am tired – I am tired of having to be “on guard” watching him for funky behavior that may be a clue that something is going on – I am tired of checking up and snooping – we all live in the same town and I see her around – she knows who I am but doesn’t know I know her – in a way, this is to my advantage -as far as I know she is just fine – divorce is proceeding and she apparently has friends and family to support her – she didn’t really need him to survive and frankly, neither do I – I would be terribly unhappy to dissolve a 36 year old marriage but I have learned what I will and will not tolerate – but here is my concern — all this time I have endeavored to prove what he was doing – found the notes, saw the calls, etc. I feel like it is much easier to prove that he is doing something wrong than to prove that he isn’t – does that make sense? as far as time, I feel like I won’t feel okay until the same number of months has passed with no contact as the number of months that passed between my finding out and that final goodbye in Nov. (9 months)- the affair lasted about 18 months so that is even a longer time to take to recover – and I don’t feel that it really really ended until Nov. even though I know they were not physical once I found out – and how I know that is another long story!
LIZ, JUNE, MARLENE
I am new to this internet BLOG thing. Actually until recently I never was on the internet. I don’t know how long these BLOGS last. I have enjoyed our interactions. We have obviously a lot in common. I appreciate the ability to share and listen without involving friends and family members who have obviously tired of the subject and are at their wits end about what else to say. I would like to continue to chat if this ends. How can we hook up and internet chat after this ends. I would feel bad if this just suddenly ends and we never know what happened to eachother. Any ideas?
Hi Ladies!
Last night was a “rough one” once again. It got heated because it was my dad’s birthday, and we have always gone and celebrated as a family. Obviously this year is a different story since my parent’s don’t want to see my husband after he deceived me for the second time (and he still hasn’t made any attempt to ammend the situation). He got all quiet when I was getting the kids ready to leave and he made a comment, “I suppose I have to fend for myself for dinner tonight! ” ( a 43-year old man, acting like a child)And I spouted off that we wouldn’t be in this mess had he done what he said he would do. Of course, we went down the same path of arguing about the affair (which I really need to get some self-control over and not react on anger!) When I came home, he was there, and he was in a really “quiet” mood and seemed very upset. He told me that he thinks I that I doubt my decision everyday to stay with him. He asked if I would please not bring up the affair for a while and see if it helps us. He said he’s not in contact with the OP and doesn’t plan on anymore contact. (???again, do I allow myself to fall for this?)..so, I am hoping I can control myself and see how this plays out. I am also tired of all the wondering and snooping. It gets old real fast and you feel like you work for a detective agency. I was so close this week to taking the divorce path once again, and I just don’t want to do that until I feel like I’ve exhausted all hope.
Joan – When he said “being with her is like I’ve come home” does that mean he’s trying to tell you he’s found his “true love” or something? These guys are amazing. And, I honestly think on some level they DO regret what they did. I think it’s called “pride” that allows them to rationalize it. And if he shows regret, somehow you get the “upper hand”. That’s just my opinion. If he treated you badly, he’s going to do the same to her eventually. From everything I’ve read and everything my therapist told me, they “take their baggage with them”. IF they don’t change their issues, they carry them with them. The OP will have their own issues and insecurities also, and they will see the fantasy person wear off. Why do you think 95% of affairs that turn into a real relationship eventually fail??? I think my husband started to realize this 6 months into his affair. The OP started becoming jealous and then she even accused him of seeing other women besides her and even made the comment, “I have to share you with your wife, but I am not willing to share you with other people” (again, utterly amazing – she’s dating a married man and is insecure he’s cheating on her!) I don’t know. One good thing from this nightmare, is I learned A LOT. I learned you can’t rely on anyone but yourself, and I learned I love my children more than anything on earth.
As far as us keeping in touch, I don’t know how that works either? I would love to but I am not sure if we can send personal info. etc. or e-mail addresses, etc.??
Hello everyone
Hope everyone had a half decent new years.
Liz hang in there , when you are angry just walk away from it till you cool, go write things down to get it off your chest. If you find you are continuing to argue over the affair it probably wont bring you closer to him. Whats done is done and he cant change it right or wrong. The only thing you can do now is put it aside in your back pocket and work toward seeing how good your relationship can be aside from it all. I know it is hard with the trust issues but if you still love him you owe it to yourself to see if there is anything left and basing your life together on the affair and things he did will not be productive. This doesnt mean to say you wont remember or shouldnt think of them but it really wont help to live each day thinking about it. You are giving the OP power when you do this. I just read a book called why men love bitches and it is a great book. Every woman should read it. You are all very intelligent wonderful women and an affair is a huge gunshot to an ego and would help you to read this book. You are all very special people and you need to be proud of who you are and not let anyone in your life make you feel less than that.
Joan just post your email for the other girls talking to each other will help you if anything a support system is everything to us right now. I think you are safe to do that here. We all need each other and through the compassion and understanding most of us have learned through this experience it can only get better. My heart breaks for you all and we are all so connected in so many ways like it or not. But it is through this connection we can all find a way to move forward.
I now look back on all of this as a blessing in disguise and hope one day you all will too
Shennie,
Thanks for the advice. My goal is to try and not bring up the affair for quite a while… and see what happens in our marriage. Thank you ALL for knowing that I can “vent” to you if needed, and that you can totally relate to me. I agree, other people must get tired of hearing about it all the time, or they can’t relate (cause it never happened to them) so they run out of advice, etc. I know that holding on the anger and bitterness, gives the OP power over me. I want to “breakfree” from that but it’s so much easier said than done, as you know.
I will keep you posted on how my new strategy goes.
Yesterday, I was going through pictures of our kids, and family, etc and I came across our wedding photos (made me totally sad) but when I found out about his affair, I took our big wedding pic down (when I kicked him out) cause I just couldn’t look at it. Then, last night, I found a smaller one and I put it out on a table and he said, “I am surprised we have any of those left” in a joking manner. Then, he saw one of him holding our son, when he was first born, and tears were streaming down his face. I think that made me realize he holds in more emotion than I give him credit for. We will see…
Hi Liz
Im glad you decided not to bring it up I know it will be hard as there are always reminders when you get the feeling to do so just stop and take your mind to a happy place, and take a deep breath and youll be ok. Add humor to your life that helps alot too, I spent many a day hitting jokes on myself for it all and still do. Your right its all so much easier said than done.
Its not that people get tired of hearing it even though they probably do , its that if they havent been through it they cant really relate anyway. They give advice but chances are if they were faced with it they wouldnt be able to givve the same advice to themselves. Its always easier to tell someone else what to do than to do it yourself. Make the most of what you have in front of you right now no matter where it goes. The more you make the most of it the more it will become. You only have up to go keep thinking that and keep writing it gives you more strength than you know.
We just finished the funeral for the boy who passed , it was so sad, his mom my friend was so broken and I felt so crushed for her. My young daughters name is Heaven and she gave her an angel pin with her sons birthstone. She was so grateful and hugged my baby so tight and it made her feel better . My daughter Heaven has an effect on people like few other children and I knew it could help her if for only a moment. We can replace a spouse but we cant replace our children, I know that is not much consellation but it is true. Keep your heads up, we will always fall as I have many times and you have all helped me back up I can only hope to do the same in return.
Shennie – thank you!
Sorry again for your friend’s loss. Funerals always make me think for days afterward about how precious our lives really are, and how fragile! My heart bleeds for people who have had to experience that, I can’t even imagine it. Your daughter sounds amazing. I know what you mean about the children. It’s amazing the strength you get from loving them. My son and daughter are my whole world and I have to stay strong for them!!
I also know what you mean about people who haven’t been in our shoes don’t know how to relate sometimes. I always thought that if my husband ever cheated, I would instantly divorce him and never look back! Well, here I am, still hanging in there. Go figure how we truly react when faced with the situation.
Humor works wonders! I make myself laugh too, it keeps me going.
Hi everyone,
Liz,
it sounds like things are a little better for you with your other half. Same as Shennie. That’s great. Like Shennie said we are all great at giving advice but do we do the same when we are in their shoes. We try. That’s why good advice is important. PERSPECTIVE. Liz, your right when you say that Home was probably true love to him. I really think to this day he has never doubted his decision. It seems he is more sure now than the day he moved out. The day he moved out I could see he was unsure, because we had quite recently been pretty good. It looked to me like he just wanted a new(you know what). He has totally plugged in with her and unplugged with us. It’s weird. You guys know what Dr. Phil says, if they’ll do it with you, they’ll do it to you(my x is 44 so maybe this is his last stop). So why do these OW get so jealous. It’s because they slipped in the side door and know that it can easily happen again(maybe with the X or another)this time to them. What goes around comes around. That saying is so true. I have seen it many times in my own life so believe it. If anyone wants to communicate with me by email my email address is butterfly.369@hotmail.com. Ladies, feel free to contact me if you like.
Hey Liz
Dont feel bad about him being plugged with her . Obviously their communication skills were zero to none with you/us so really they wont be any better with them down the road. I have come to realize that for some of these men it isnt that they havent wanted to come back but that they would have to face their share of humility in doing so. I know with mine he still to this day has never acknowledged what he has done or even faced it in any way, hopefully it will catch up with him eventually but I sure wont be catching up with him. We were together for 26 yrs but not formally married but had 6 kids together. He is now telling one of the kids that wont speak to him and hasnt for 4 yrs. he is sending her emails telling her that we had no relationship and we werent married so it was ok. Well formal or informal 26 yrs and 6 kids to me constitutes enough committment. And in my opinion he is only demeaning the family they thought they had in saying this like we were all living some kind of lie. Well she lived here to among the rest of us and knows it was everything any other family and marraige is to anyone. The only bonus for me is that I saved ten grand or more in divorce procedures. I got full custody because he vanished for 3 yrs and he has the nerve to this day to try to win her heart by demeaning what we had because of a formality. I hope the what goes around comes around is true and its not just crap people say to make you feel better lol. If I had the money Id hire some stud to go get her cause I cant imagine it would take much she is only 21 and hes lookin a little old. Lets just say they were in the mall and someone asked if the kid they had together was his grandaughter…………..burn yeah. lol.I will email you sometime ok.
Shennie,
Actually, you were responding to Joan(me). But that’s Okay. We’re all sounding so much alike at times it’s easy to mix us up. And sure, you are free to email me anytime. It sounds like your X left a lot of responsibility behind for you to handle. He’s kidding himself. It frees him in his mind to see it as a light commitment. Imagine! 6 kids later. OUCH! Are you over it. Have you dated in the last 3-4 years.
Joan, wow… Your circumstances were so similar to mine. Everyone thought we had the perfect marriage too. We always laughed and had fun. That’s the biggest reason I was attracted to him. But like most marriages, after the kids came, then came the responsibilities. He was content to let me take care of the kids. I always praised him for the fact that he was so confident in me that he let me make the decisions in how to raise them. The truth of the matter is, he just didn’t want to bother. And in some ways, I wish he had left when I found out about her b/c he didn’t give her up. Just acted like he had and continued to treat me like crap for well over a year. I’m sorry your situation turned out the way it did but I hope that you can move on emotionally. I’m sure you’ve come out of this a much better person. It sounds as if you have. My thoughts are with you.
Marlene, Isn’t is amazing that they all follow the same story? It’s as if they are all acting out the same play, some variations, but the same story. The OP in my husband’s life, has a type of blood cancer and he felt very sorry for her. Also, he felt bad b/c her husband never gave her birthday or Christmas presents (though he got her other things). I think that was the original connection. But I don’t see him feeling sorry for me now. Guess that only works one way. Whenever she was sad, he rushed to make her feel better. If I’m not “happy” he gets irritated and says I’m not moving forward. But you are right when you say that not finding anything isn’t reassurance. Just b/c he’s not calling her from his cell phone doesn’t mean he’s not calling her from a client’s office or from a payphone somewhere. The bottom line is, if someone is determine to do something, they can always find a way. If he is committed to this relationship, then I should see changes in his attitude. He shouldn’t be critical, distant and unloving. And he still is but he doesn’t think so. I usually keep my mouth shut b/c I don’t want to nag, but it’s constant. Every night I get a kiss on the forehead and a “goodnight, I love you”, as if I’m his daughter. Yet, he went to great lengths to meet her and make out & Lord know what else, and txt message I love you, etc. to her. Shouldn’t I get at least that? I think the whole marriage is completely disconnected and I think he’s completely content with it, but I’m not. I try not to think about her b/c it only infuriates me. But I don’t want another 20 years like this. Is your husband treating you well? How is his attitude? I think that I would focus on that more than worrying about the other person. And if he is seeing her, you’ll discover it. They all get careless. Good luck!
Liz, so sorry that it’s such an emotional whirlwind for you. But I would try not talking about it. I know that’s really hard. A big reason why I want to talk about it, is b/c I’m really looking for reassurance. I want him to tell me he’s not seeing her, that he’s sorry, that he’ll never do it again and that he really loves me and I’d really like him to tell me that he was idiot for even considering leaving me for her-that she’s not worth it. But what I get instead is an argument or a defensive attitude or an accusation that I’m not moving forward and then I’m disappointed b/c I didn’t hear what I so desperately wanted to hear. Does that make sense? Unfortunately, talking about her doesn’t help our marriage any and I’m trying to move forward. Maybe one day he will say those things. He did when I was trying to kick him out, but otherwise he doesn’t say anything. Try to move forward and try to focus on you and your kids. I know easier said than done. Hope you find peace.
Shennie, so sorry for your friend. She is lucky to have you & your daughter. btw… Your husband is full of crap. Just because he didn’t formally make a commitment doesn’t mean that he was free. That also didn’t give him the freedom to abandon his kids. I do believe that what goes around comes around – You reap what you sow. Stay strong & hope your 2007 is great!
To all, appreciate reading what you write. It helps me tremendously and when I write to you it helps me put things in perspective. When I give advice, I’m not always following it myself, and so I try to do so. It helps the restlessness in me and gives me a way to vent without draining the people in my life. Thanks for being there and answering and I wish you all good luck and a great 2007!
To Joan , sorry for the typo you addressed liz in you blog and the name was stuck as I had been talking alot to her sorry. Over it well I dont think anyone really gets over it and getting over it to me depends on each persons situation. Over him yes I am definately because I am a better person than that and from the beginning he tried to tell me lies to let him come back and I stood back from it to see if it was true I didnt jump to believe him and everytime the test of time was to my advantage so even though it hurt to not open the door quick for him my gut instincts were right. He tried to jump back and forth for almost a year. Was quite a ride I dont know who said it earlier in this blog about their partner crying so deeply about it all because the last time I saw him he poured his heart out , told me he loved me and couldnt live without me, missed making love to me etc etc. was gonna fight his way back all the while kissing, all I said was if what you say is true time will tell. I had never in the 26 yrs together seen him cry like this BUT it was also the last time I saw him for 3 yrs that followed.
It wasnt so much the resp of the kids that hit me as it was the farm work. I am small and farmwork is heavy and he dumped all the debt on me paid no child support and they both spent money out of a joint account until i found out and had it stopped The last straw for me was when he sent me a text message telling me hed file for bankruptcy and we would lose everything becasue him and his woman needed money for food. lol wat a joke. This life is too much weight and have done it for my kids but I am in the process of trying to find a way to change that part of my life, without hurting them too much. I think if your partner does things properly and owns their share of the responsibility then its much easier to move on and get over it, I didnt have very good circumstances to do that and most of you probably wont either , the insanity thing they are not fair and cant be straight up about anything.
Anyway dating hmmm thats kindof interesting. Ive been cautious, not had a lot of time to say the least. Well speaking as a woman its pretty easy to get a date but all this has made me kinda picky and im not getting stuck with anyone who is not quality material. So you see there is a bright side to all of this because when we look for a new person we are much more educated in what to look for not that we wont make mistakes in doing that I have a couple times but I have chose to make them real eye openers and learning experiences rather than let them get me down. There is someone I have my eye on, we just met at a bar where I went to see a show with my girlfriend I got his autograph so I cant say his name, He is famous so maybe only sees me as a fan but has been emailing me for 3 weeks, he invited me for a drink after one of his recent shows but I couldnt make it because of the funeral, and I spent 4 hours in emergency with my little one as she hurt herself that same day.
So our drink or what ever is postponed, Im not getting my hopes up because in reality I am not really looking for anyone. Because of the number of kids I have I somehow think I should wait til the time is right. I really just want to make my life better in other ways to be truthful, you know find myself. My mom always told me I was talented and special and god brought me here for a reason and she reminded me of that the other day and damit I sure hope he tells me why soon lol.
Of course there is always my mechanic waiting in the background no thanks either. I have come to kind of like just being me, I do miss having someone in my life that way, sometimes but I have chose to be alone for now for many reasons. Il keep you posted.
JuneD Well i will tell you this much i sure wouldnt have given him 6 kids if I didnt think he was committed that would be downright stupid. What is btw… and it better come aroundcause I will be waiting to applaud.lol
Just keep writing we need to support and humor each other to keep strong even if we cant always take our own advice eventually we probably will or at least lets hope we will.
Just a note……I just had a very intriguing conversation with a long time friend (interestingly enough the first kiss my husband ever had..although I don’t think she knows that!)
She has been in this mess as well. I am not sure, but from speaking with her mother last week and her tonight I believe she was the cheater. Her advise was to hang in there if there are positive signs. The positive in the realtionship brings the spouse back and is really good. She was tearful and clear that this was very impactful for her. She was cryptic about the details which is why I am not sure about who had the affair.
However, she was very clear on the impact and feelings. It has been 3 years for her and she is very happy now. Feeling like the relationship that got so out of control is now better than ever.
I also checked out Dr. Gunzburg…..a link from this sight. A bit of a different take but very helpful as well.
I have no idea where I will end up, but am so grateful for the kinship in the process. It makes me stronger….even if that means something different every day. I have to believe I am building toward a better life in one way or another.
I am still blown away by this conversation and just wanted to share a bit of it.
Joan, btw is By the way… Glad to hear you’re doing better. Stay strong & don’t settle for anything less than you deserve. I don’t know why affairs turn good, solid, responsible men into adolescents. Doesn’t make sense. I don’t think my husband will ever be the same. We had a huge fight this afternoon and not about her either though in a way it really is the underlying issue. He started criticizing me and complaining about everything, on & on so much so that I actually left the restaurant we were in and waited out in the car for him. He then attacked me verbally. No matter what I do, it’s not good enough. You can tell from the way he talks and treats me that it’s not me he wants to be with. Not sure what to do. I don’t want to do this my whole life. It totally sucks! I’m sure he didn’t continually criticize her. Guess time will tell.
Sue, thanks for the comments about your friend’s affair. Nice to know that someone actually survived and did better from it. I know so many people who have gotten divorced from affairs or are going through them but I don’t know anyone whose marriage has survived one and actually become better because of it. Take care and best of luck to you.
June D,
I think at this point the affair will always be the underlying issue. I think the cheater usually far underestimates the damage that was done during the affair. People are deeply hurt by this. Sometimes so deeply that recovery is nearly impossible. I know that I can never fully recover from the deception and loss of what we had. I will learn to live with it though. Although as you know my partner no longer is here so I don’t have to deal with trying to forget everyday. Your partner has to understand that you need him more than ever to show his devotion to you and love for you, even if it takes forever. People under no circumstances should be made to feel not good enough or like less. It chips away at who we are. In many ways we are addicted to the relationship(relationship addicts)not the cheater. They want what once was and that can happen but it takes total dedication from both partners, from what I have seen in my life, to make it work again.
Shennie,
Sounds like your doing great. I like you am trying to make it as a ME in this world. Anything else right now would just complicate things. My X has totally complicated his life although he is still in the new fun stage of his relationship, I’m not sure how long things will stay that way since she has 2 preteen boys. They are in LOVE but I have seen how quickly LOVE turns into bye bye when things get too complicated or there are too many demands. Sounds like you have your hands full with the farm. YIKES. That must be hard. I have enough trouble with just keeping up house and property. Although, I have a new kind of peace. Do you talk at all to your X now and does he have any visitation rights.
LIZ,
Where are you?.LOL. Last we heard you were going to stop talking about the OW. How have you been doing at that??Let us know.
Ladies, Don’t forget to jot down my email butterfly.369@hotmail.com in case we ever lose this blog.
To June D; Believe me it is not you!!! He has to find fault with the one he has been with because he knows the OP would not put up with it. It’s a control issue on thier part as they are so out of control they can’t see the forest for the trees. I went through he same thing nothing I did or said was right, I could not even turn on a light switch the right way to please him, no paper towel in the holder all the little stuff no matter how clean your house is nothing. So this what I did. The last time he made a comment I told him “if it needs changing, change it, if it needs fixing, fix it, that’s what I have been doing for two years, where have you been”. I told him “since you are so unhappy you need to go where you are a needed and wanted person and leave me be I will be fine”, he is still here, fear of the unknown maybe who knows. He has not said a word to me since about anything that needed to be done except in general conversation as things always need to be done no matter where you live. I started going about my own buisness and doing what I always do shop/post office whatever and never gave into his comments again. I just walk away as if my life was fine and never said a word to him. He will have to decide what is important in his life not mine any longer because he destroyed so much of it but I am back and I do not seek revenge, not worth it either of them, Karma will take care of them all in time. I think the light is coming on for him and allot of it is I believe he sees what this is going to cost him, oh my, life in the fast lane and no telling all that he has spent on his follies. I have developed a wait and see attitude and if works fine and if not turn me loose to do other things in my life and I will. Big world out there and lots left to do. Happy landings for all of us and we will all be on our feet one day.
Joan
No I dont see my ex, in the last 3 yrs I have only had to see him in case conference. He was just awarded every other sunday for 8 hrs, thats it, I actually emailed him offering to meet him and work out arrangements for every week but he denied me and wanted to leave it in the hands of the court. assessment was based on his actions and the kids request. Only 3 of the 6 kids go one is on her own now and she doesnt see him much, of the 3 who do go sometimes they choose not to and only 1 ends up there. He is not a real dad in any sense, but its like a playday if you get my drift. no having to take care of anybodys needs etc. He is such a loser and well I have resigned myself to it as hid loss.
I dont not want to see him period if ever as I have no respect for him at all not just as an ex but as a human being itself. He is a lousy example for my kids and life is really all about him first and everyone else second or third or later. There is no repsonsibility at all on his part. Im glad its this way because otherwise would make it harder to move on . Even going tto drop them off at his parents for the visitation is a total drag and sometimes I get a friend to do it.He is completely and totally out of my life for good and I wouldnt have it any other way.
If he had been a real person things would and could have been different but he chose this route for all of us and I just ended up having to do what I had to do, and I try really hard to never look back. Its really hard to erase your life until you have a new one. Dont know how it was so easy for him but we all need to takes notes on that I guess. No conscience ? or just braindead.
He is trying to push the kids into couselling but they are fine it is him that needs it in my opinion. Unfortunately the counselling he wants them to have makes it about him and not them and their own suffering. So that he can make sure they are brainwashed into thinking that if he says hes sorry then its all ok. but because their lives had to suffer its not really ok just a way for him to try and get himself off the hook of feeling guilty.I really dont care anymore what he does in that way I just want to be totally left out of it.
Hi Ladies!!!
Sorry took so long to write. I just read all of your new posts. Gosh, we have so much in common. Well, I haven’t brought up the OP like I said I would (even though it’s sooo tempting). Today, I was taking my daughter to dance class, and on the way, I passed the OP’s place of employment (she’s the owner) and would you believe she was outside the building, talking on her cell phone. I almost drove off the road becuase all I could think about was that she was probably talking to my husband on the other line!! He wasn’t with me and the kids and it was so ironic that she was walking around outside the building on the phone. It was awful that my mind raced there. But, how can it not after all I’ve been through? My first reaction was to tell my husband when I got home and I DIDN’T. I refrained myself. The problem is I just don’t know if I can live with the WONDERING that he created!!!! I also, think it is amazing that the cheater’s favorite phrase to ALL of us is “move on”. It must be a universal language among all of them.
Sandy – I can totally relate to all the criticism you get! I get the SAME thing. NOTHING is clean enough or organized enough. Do you think they would criticize the OP like this? Doubt it. But…what if they married the OP? Would they eventually do it to them? I have to believe in Karma.
Well, going to bed, it’s really late and I will post tomorrow!!
Oh, and my e-mail is liz410_35@msn.com. Please jot it down for future use also!!
Hi all – this is mostly in response to June D but it may relate to others as well – yes, he is now treating me very well but I did get similar treatment to what you are describing – and he finally told me, in July, that he realized that he had been being terrible to me – that is when all that stuff stopped – prior to that I was between a rock and a hard place; d—– if I did and d—– if I didn’t. If I tried to do something differently because he had shared that it had bothered him “all these years” his response was that he could see that I am doing something different but “why now?” At one point I told him that I thought that maybe he felt that I was putting up with this situation (his maintaining contact with her) because I simply didn’t want to be alone – he said that the thought crossed his mind – so clearly he was still suspicious that it wasn’t because I loved him, it was just the convenience of still having him around and the avoidance of friends and family knowing, etc. All of that said, I will share that I am not totally reassured yet – back in early August, he was trying to convince me that his contact with her was doing no harm to our relationship – this was after he told me that he was committed to our marriage – his rationale was that I could see that things were better between us (and they were) so what threat was his contact with the OP really having? That was a weird question but my answer was that no matter what occurred between them, innocent or not, she will always be the person he cheated with and will forever be a threat to me, period – as you can see from one of my previous comments, he did not acknowledge that until November. Now of course he could simply go to greater lengths to hide stuff – so my antenna are still up, but so far I am coming up empty as far as evidence. Anyway in the hope that it may help, I will describe to you when and how the bad treatment stopped(it was only verbal “snottiness” but hurtful nonetheless because I knew how nicely he treated her) We were away on a vacation with friends – I was able to find out that he was still calling her (from California!) while we were away – rather than telling him that I knew he was calling, I asked him not to do so – to let this week be just about us – he responded that he couldn’t do that because he had told her that he would try to call when possible and couldn’t go back on his word (my goodness, what an ethical guy, right?) He made it clear he had not wanted to come on this trip but I guess was too embarrassed to cancel it since it involved our 4 best friends. Later that night he made a very disparaging remark to me about what I was wearing and accused me of trying to act younger – we were on our way out to dinner – I held my tongue but when we returned to the room, I told him I was going back out for coffee – he offered to come and I told him, no, that I wanted to be alone – that I was really angry at him and that I didn’t deserve to be treated this way – he got very defensive and again said we shouldn’t have come and neither of us is happy – I told him that the main reason I am not happy is because he insists on contacting her and that since he knows how that hurts me, I can only draw the conclusion that she is important enough to him to sacrifice our marriage for – this was the night that he told me that if I didn’t like the situation I could divorce him – it was a very turbulent conversation and it didn’t resolve – it just sort of died out because we were exhausted and he then said that he wanted to stop talking but just wanted to hold me all night – was that okay – and that is what we did – the rest of the trip, he was pleasant. The following week was our anniversay – not a pleasant prospect and it was again a very emotional night – we got into it again but ended up intimate – this was the time the tide turned when he admitted that he had stayed with me all these months but was now realizing he hadn’t really been trying to work on our marriage and that he wanted to – a couple days later, I intercepted an email from her begging him not to shut her out of his life and apologizing for being nasty but that his being away and our anniversary had caused her “anxiety” (poor thing!) It was on this day that I lost it – called him, told him I found the email, told him to come home and met him at the door, my suitcase in my car, and handed him my wedding ring – he squirmed and admitted to me that she had given him a hard time about being away and that he had told her that she had no right to do that – he told her he was committed to me and that she could choose – either not see him at all or see him knowing that they would never be more than friends – she first chose to cut off the contact then 24 hrs later emailed him saying she had changed her mind. The next few weeks drew it to a close and he finally cut her off at the beginning of Sept – he “relapsed” in Nov after seeing her in town but I caught his vibes and some emails and that got nipped in the bud, with her stomping off furious with him. I also want to comment on your issue with the way he is kissing you, etc. I also confronted my husband about how I knew how romantic he must have been with her and that I resented that he was not that way with me, that I need romance too – he responded that he knows that but he was not ready yet and reminded me that early in our marriage he was romantic but that I didn’t seem to appreciate it – so think about that – is your husband perceiving old hurts or is he just keeping his distance because he is still on the fence – it may be worth talking, calmly if you can, about that – the day before Thanksgiving, I came home to a dozen red roses and a card thanking me for being so wonderful through all of this – so, again, good gestures, positive directions and progress – do I know for sure that nothing is happening – no – and the days of blind trust are gone – but I will continue to try to trust what I see without being an ostrich – sorry this was so long but as you all know, we have this need to tell our story and if there is anything in mine that helps anyone, that’s great
Marlene,
Every time you write I suck in every word. My husband is coming tonight to discuss the future….again. But my deadline is closing in quickly and he knows it. He has told her they are over, but they are not over..what does that mean? He says he will and can do it and is adament….but still has not. My story seems to mimic yours in many ways. I have the added complication of him living with her the past 4 months. How did I get here????
He was surprised when I said I really hated the prospect of hiring a lawyer. He said he thought we were ‘beyond that’. I told him I wish we were, but how could he possibly think that when he was still with her. I just don’t know where his head is at. He is pretty clear when I talk to him, but his actions, to me, do not coincide. He thinks they do. I can’t figure out if he is more confused or scared. He says scared. If so…….jump anyway. Not making the move is not going to solve the problem. If it’s the confusion, I just feel over that. Maybe I’m just too worn and tired.
Send good thoughts my way. Our planned conversations usually are very productive as we can really listen and respond to each other. But I am so tired of waiting.
Marlene…….I also hear the ‘but I have to because I told her I would’. The last time he said that I just calmly responded “So where does your marriage commitment to me fit into this equation of ‘commitment’?” He apologized and seems to have turned a corner on that one. Sometimes I think they are just so caught up in themselves they can’t possible hear what they sound like.
Off for a nice long walk to try and clear out my head.
Hi Everyone,
Marlene, I have to comment on everything you said. It’s too bad you did’nt just leave the email as it was. It sounded to me like she sounded so desperate and demanding and I know men don’t like desperate woman. It’s as if every effort you make to make her go away he will or is more enticed. FORBIDDEN FRUIT., you know. I think the best thing is to be confident with yourself as a woman and take the high road. Let her show her true colors. You will come out a winner if you do.
As for me, my X was here today,(remember, he lives with OW for last 3 months), helping me with a small flood in the basement. He will be returning soon with other stuff. We laughed, got along great, he seemed to hang around a bit, but I said, anyways, I have stuff to do soooo…he left. His girlfriend(that he seems to be very happy with) was waiting for him at home. It was weird, as if it was before all of this happened. He told me he still has me on all of his insurances, so if I ever needed something to use it. He is trying to make peace with me.
Liz,
Good for you. That must have been hard to do. You should have called him to see if he answered and seen if she hung up. (just kidding!). A womans thinking. Has he been nicer to you since you have been trying. In other words, are you getting results from what you have been doing?
Just a quick note, my friend told me to check out this site, http://www.womansdivorce.com and I did. WOW, what they had to say was amazing, like reading everybody’s stories. To say the least there are thousands out there in the same possition we are. Facts are facts no matter how you slice the bread. Wishing us all the best.
Thanks everyone for the advise & responses. In previous entries, Dave suggested Marriagemax.com. I ordered it and it looks pretty good. My husband is not interested at all in doing it, so I’m doing it for me. I’ll let you know how it goes. We had more arguments last night. He was cold & critical. He said he refuses to kiss and hug me b/c he doesn’t want to be phony. What does that mean? I thought he was trying to work on our relationship. He use to b/f her. I know in my heart that it’s her he wants to be with. But I’m going to put those thoughts aside for now and stop worrying about where his head is. I need to worry about where my head is b/c with or without him, I need to be whole. Liz, you said something about wondering if he was on the cell phone talking to her. If you’re not prepared to leave him if he is, then don’t pursue it. All it will do is make you look weak and needy. If you are prepared to do something about it and really want to know, you should be able to get access to his phone records. Call the phone company or have a male friend call. I’m sure you know his SS # and pertinent questions. But don’t look or even worry about him still cheating unless you’re going to do something. Just focus on you. I know… easier said than done.
Hope you all have great weeks. They can only get better, right?
Hi Joan – just a response to your comments – yes, the email I found from her in July WAS pathetic – and then she got even more desperate – in early August when they were “meeting” (they went for coffee) she made a pass at him – asked him to kiss her – he refused – how do I know? well, again I saw an email to him (and it was not a fake – he had no idea I was getting into his mail because the other one I had found was a hardcopy he stupidly printed out, not something I read online)and in it she apologizes for behaving that way, saying she has to respect his boundaries and that she knew the intimacy was over between them and knew he would reject her but did it anyway because she has been hurt so much that she just does more things to hurt herself etc. – the best part of this scenario is that he told me all about it when I again told him I was getting to the end of my rope – after that day, he told me that he emailed her to say he would not ever meet her again in person – she called him wildly upset – and he told her that he had told me what she did – she got really mad because she said it made her look pathetic (duh!) But – the last email she sent to him in Nov., when he made it final, was not desperate – it was blistering and brutal – in all of this I never assaulted his character, just his behavior, and she called him every name in the book, including telling him that he is as bad as her soon-to-br-ex and supposedly abusive husband – so indeed she has shown her true colors – it is very hard for me to put together those earlier desperate emails and the last vicious one with the picture he tried to paint of this “wonderful” person who has been dealt so many blows in life – bull—-! I believe one of my best lines in this was to say to him that she needed to put on her big girl panties and deal like the rest of us – that the solution to having breast cancer and an abusive husband was NOT to have an affair with a married man – he didn’t like it, because he was always very protective of her, but it is the truth – which leads me to tell you guys one other thing – watch for if and when your husbands start to tell you more about what goes on with the OW and not keep it so much of a secret – and see if they also start at the same time to lie to her – I think it was a big clue that he was pulling away from her and more toward me – one book I read talks about opening up windows and building up walls – so the more windows he opens with you and the more walls he builds between him and her, the more likely things will progress – for whatever it is worth I have you all in my thoughts and am sending you all good vibes!
Sue
My heart goes out to you, still living with the OP , I hate to say this but if he really turned the corner he would not be living with her still. All I can say is dont extend you deadline unless you wish to prolong the agony, unless you really want him the way he is. Why cant these people see what they are doing to other peoples lives, I hope your talk goes well and he gets out of their now. I have come to learn that these men are too needy to be on their own, if he is confused then he should move out and live on his own or with family til he figures it all out and becomes unconfused. Living with her is not going to unconfuse him at all. If he hasnt agreed to move out i would suggest that you mention an arrangement as this to him.How can he think things clearly when he beds her at night. Im not saying this to hurt you but to wake you, this is your reality love him or not if you accept this behavior then it will allow him to think he will always be able to use your love for him this way. I do understand and I cant tell you how many times I fell back on my love for my x butwhen I really assessed the reality I didnt want to live the rest of my life with someone wiht these capabilities no matter what the love i had was.I sometimes think now if he had come back how miserable I would be full of mistrust and a tainted relationship. I am praying for you that tonight things go your way and you can really have a new beginning either way.
Marlene it was great that her true colors turned up and if only more of these men gave that opportunity to happen it would for sure. I guess the key is turning the tables on them. Something like that started for me because at the 6 month mark living with her 6 months pregnant he was begging to come back here at my home he stayed most of the night crying and carrying on and she kept texting and phoning what the f is going on etc etc. I can remember when he finally left thinking how does it feel B. Unfortunatly because of her pregnancy she threatened suicide and used her condition to worsen the situation til it was finally beyond the point of no return for us. I do hope it comes back to haunt her one day and him for that matter , but im glad your situation progressed forit to happen on more than one occasion.
You are right about the lying to her etc just remember he will lye to you to the key to that is to not react to it. I made the mistake of telling her myself he wanted to come home and it ended up putting him on her defense once again bad move.
Liz glad to see you back and your right the moving on words oh so true so easy for them to say,
Joan you are also so true in the forbidden fruit thing which is why every woman should read the book why men love bitches, its true to a T. wrote by a woman for women by interviewing men. its a gotta read . it sounds like your on you way up and gaining confidence. Make sure you give him huge praise for this favor hell eat it up and she will hate it go girl.
Thanks for the website suggestion Sandy i am going to check it out. the more we learn regardless the better we will be.
Hi June – I have access to his cell phone records on-line (that’s how I bustd him the first time! I got his info and called the phone company and bam, found all the calls. The problem is, he doesn’t use his cell phone anymore to call her and he doesn’t take her calls on it. He switched to pay phones after catching him twice. So, I would have no way to know if he’s calling her now or not. And, you are very right, I am not sure if I want to know right now. And, I will try my hardest to focus on me. Thanks for the advice.
Joan – he has been nicer but I feel so disconnected. I feel like we are “polite” and just two people living in the same house as parents, not “husband and wife”. UGH. If anything, it benefits the kids though. I just feel like I am living with a complete stranger at times. (as we all probably do at some point!)
Marlene- your trip sounds like a few of ours. We have a trip planned early March and I am nervous about that. The worst is we are going with good friends of ours, and they know the whole story, but it’s never been topic of discusssion between us. The hardest part for me when being around other couples is the embarrasement of his affair, and then I always wonder what they think about me staying with him after what he did to me. I wonder, “do they think I am weak, or a “doormat”, etc.” Does anyone else feel this way? My parents tell me they respect me for trying to work on the marriage and stay together for the kids. I feel like my friends think I am weak (although they NEVER say this). They always tell me I can “do better” or that I “shouldn’t put up with him”, etc. Just wondering if this happens to you too.
Hi all, I have been reading all your posts, and haven’t responded because I have had this gut feeling that even though my husband was home and everything was and has been really good since September, that he was still involved with her. And well…… I was right. He reached out to her and she of course, took the bait. He says that every he goes 3-4 weeks with not thinking of her and then he gets this overwhelming feeling that he needs to talk to her. Then they talk for like a week and she pushes him to why he hasn’t left me and then he blows her off and the cycle starts again. I downloaded a Dr. Gunzenburgs book a long time ago and it came with some bonus books to help the cheater as well as the offended spouse. He has been looking for help and support and can’t find any online. Anyway, the book says that cheating is an addiction, just like alcohol or drugs and that the 3-4 week timespan after he ends it is the crucial time when people relapse. He gives pointers on how to control the urge to see the OP and stop the cycle. My husband was really into his book and felt like finally someone was able to help him understand why he keeps going back.
We had a GREAT holiday and then on Jan 3, he said he just started thinking about her and couldn’t stop the feeling of needing to see her. He came upstairs to our bed and sat on the edge that morning and kissed me. He checked on our kids and my 4 yr old was in my bed and he didn’t see him and came running in saying “Where’s Griffin”? Is he in here? I said yes he’s right here. What’s the matter? He said nothing and left for work and went to see her. He said he was looking to see if he could find out why he was feeling this way. He said when he saw her, he got no answers. He actually said he left feeling like there really wasn’t anything there for him. He didn’t feel the feelings of love or sparks of excitement. He just said to himself, “What am I doing here”? Anyway, through a keylogger program I have installed on my computer, I got his password to his work email and found and email about there little meeting from her and called him and told him I was packing his bags so come get your stuff, I’m done. He came straight home and of course cried and begged not to throw him out and that he didn’t love her and he doesn’t know why he gets these feelings etc. We talked and I caved and let him stay but still felt like I didn’t know everything, so I searched his deleted items in his email and found the emails that he has been talking to her on and off the whole time. Going in cycles of talking and not talking etc. I confronted him again and I called her, telling her that I knew everything and that I had asked him to leave and he begged me to stay so if she thought he was ever going to leave then she was fooling herself. He was standing there listening and said he felt I should be allowed to say my piece. Of course she didn’t answer and I had to leave a voicemail, but I felt better. Then came the blowout fight. I had to give the ultimatum. It was time. 8 mos of this crap was too much for me. I told him, get help, give me your passwords, your phone, you will live by my rules or you can go. He cried and apologized over and over. He agreed and has so far been compliant. He wrote her an email with me there and told her it was over for good and he loved me and wasn’t ever leaving me, at least not for her. He made an appt with a counselor and we made a plan for if and when he gets these feeelings of needing to see her.
I guess what I am saying to you all, is trust your gut feelings. I have ALWAYS been right no matter how much he told me I was crazy and wrong, I knew I was right. My gut has not failed me. I just had to get proof before confronting him. I am also saying, for those of you whose spouses say they are done with the OP and home making things work, just look for the addiction cycle timeline. See if his attitude cycles in 3-4 wk timespans. Anyway, here I am once again starting the healing over again for like the 6th time. I was just starting to feel normal again and now I am back to paranoia, panic attacks and obsession. This too shall pass they say. Good luck to you all and Take care.
MS – wow. Amazing. And….you are SO RIGHT about hte timeframes, although, my spouse never quit talking to her, but he went about every 2-3 weekns inbetween actually seeing her. He would even go over there, and demand she take his phone number out of her cell phone, etc. Then he would break up with her, wait a few weeks, then he was back. She even made the comment “you’ll never leave me”. So, I can totally relate to you! And, I also don’t beleive him that he has quit her cold turkey since September. I find it VERY hard to believe and I have “gut feelings” once again. And, my guy feelings have never been wrong also. I’ve been right on track, each time. My therapist also told me that if I decide to file for divorce again, she has to coach me through the “begging and crying” episodes. I honeslty think they use this to manipulate us. Do you agree?? The reason I say this is my husband cried and begged BOTH times and then after he knew he was “homefree” so to say, he turned into a jerk weeks later. It’s so hard because you feel sorry for them in a sick way even though they are doing this themselves. Are we, the cheated on, addicted in some way to rescuing them?? It’s such a terrible cycle. Hang in there and I am so impressed by your behavior. It’s great.
Hi guys
I posted something you may be interested in on the SURFACE STROKE section so we didnt have to go through over a hundred blogs, funny how we all pick the title and stick with it forever. But the title is really not important as the communication we are all sharing.
Hey liz , is your spouse emotionally abusive at all just wondering answer me on the surface stroke itll be quicker.
Hi everyone,
Shennie, what is a surface stroke section. And yes, I am working my way back up in self confidence but even though he has been great and doing me favors a lot it is not because of him that I feel better. That came from me. I will do as you say, compliment him for helping etc. if nothing else just to give his new girl a little something to think about.
Liz,
It sounds like the situation is really bothering you. I know what you mean by what will other people think of you taking him back. My split 3 months ago was final but when I think about if he were to ever come back I think, yikes, what will everyone (family and friends)think of me. You just need to tell people that you are doing this because the family unit is really important to you. You feel an obligation to your kids to try and make it work. I would though, simply for your health have a timeline on how long you will go on feeling worried about the OW. Leaving a relationship is extremely difficult but so is staying in one that you are not deeply cared for. I put my X out the next day. I’m a really loyal person and knew that I could’nt be second or up against anyone. I suffered a lot in the first month but now I have to say I feel better day by day. Put yourself out there but not to the point where you become ill and can’t be there for your kids. I really wish you well. I hope he realizes that he has a wife that cares enough to stick with him through all of this stuff.
ME,
The whole situation bugs me. He is starting to hide that it is me he is talking to on his cell.(imagine hiding his X on his girlfriend) when we talk. He acts like I’m a stranger and I know it’s because she is there. It’s really funny! Even though I know he does’nt want to come back here the shoe is on the other foot now. I no longer have any insecurities. I know now that being on this side of the fence(alone) I am as much of the threat to her as she used to be to me. It’s great! I look better(no stress) feel better and am better. He is over there trying to make it work with her meanwhile the ghosts are coming out of the closet. Any comments?
Hi Joan –
What are the purpose of his calls? Is it strictly to discuss the kids, or does he show personal interest in you? I am just wondering if he’s starting to wake up and realize what he lost (he will eventually). I am so happy you are doing better!! I need to get my nerves under control and stress levels down, I agree.
My husband is playing on a men’s card league tonight (same place he met up with her). He swears up and down she would never go there again (right). Even if he’s totally innocent, I just can’t deal with the “what ifs” right now, and I feel if he truly loved me and wanted me to get better from all this, he would have given up these habits for me.
Liz,
To answer you, the purpose is always house or kids related. We never call eachother to see how the other one is but we do care how the other one is. He is still quite protective of me when it comes to my kids. He does’nt like it when they are rude with me. He rally’s to my side immediately although I can take care of myself. He is helpful when he can get here but it is clear his priorities are with her. He is still in the very new stages of his relationship. He made his choice. It was her and her kids. Now I will make my own choices. It’s not easy but neither was living with him. I was tired of feeling like the used shoe. I have some great things to offer and if he can’t see it, down the road someone else will. Had she had a husband I probably could have done the same thing to her(alhtough I would’nt). She’s new, mysterious, to him. I could be new and mysterious to someone I don’t know too. It’s nothing to do with US. It’s all about THEM. We did’nt do anything wrong.
As for your stuggle with him playing cards where she used to go I don’t really blame you. Dr. Phil would say that if he is committed he needs to do whatever it takes to keep you happy. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen a show where he speaks about infidelity but he says the cheater(for lack of a better word) needs to do whatever he has to to make it work. It’s is huge that you have put yourself out there to trust him again and take the chance of more pain. You’re not crazy, you just want to be really sure of his love for you. He has to prove himself to you and if he’s not willing to do that, how committed is he? He put you through a lot(as mine did) with his choices and he can’t close his eyes to the pain he caused you. People that cheat are really just running away from lifes realities. That’s why I believe the day the OW becomes their reality they will either do the same to them,(if they’ll do it with you, they’ll do it to you)or at some point she will become the pain in the *** to them. There is no dream life. They have to get real. Romantic love is short lived. Period.
I’m not saying that every couple out there should just stay together, I’m saying that if your not happy in a relationship, you should’nt get something else going. Be a big person and leave, then look for someone more suitable. I don’t think anyone should try and cook two steaks at one time, they’ll both burn(JUST A PUN). These cheaters usually end up with neither of the two in the end.
Hi all.
Thanks for all your support…….again.
Liz..I just came from my book group that I have not attended since this began. It was so great for me to be there and not at all intimidated by what they might think. And they are a judgmental group of women….not my closest friends, but I’ve been friends with them for a long time.
My confidence and openess helped them and they commented on it. Did they gossip once I left? Probably, but so what? As so many have said….I have only myself (and my kids) to answer to. If I continually pay attention to how I feel and what I do, I don’t really care (although it does bother me at times) what anyone else thinks. How would you feel if you made a decision on what someone else thought and regretted it later? NO ONE deserves an explanation from you. Except you. Keep your feet on the ground and do what feels truly right for you. It may change week to week, day to day, hour to hour. But if you keep listening to yourself you will be OK with it in the end and so much stronger.
Shennie…….thanks for the post. You are so very right and I am very aware of it all. He is having major anxiety attacks, which he has never had before (and thought I was making them up) because he knows I am serious. It is so painful to know it could be so good, but that he may not be strong enough to do it. I truly believe this is not a case of him wanting her more. But it doesn’t really matter in the end if he can not let her go.
He did call me tonight for help in getting through the anxiety. He is worried that if he breaks it off now he is not ready and will want to see her again. I told him that of course he will want to see her again. He just can’t. If he doesn’t break it off because of this he never will. He is asking for more info as this is a new idea to him. He is trying….but who knows?
Does anyone have any links for info on what the offending party must do, or more importantly, can expect to go through when they break it off? The counseling thing for him has been an incredible mountain….we can’t seem to find someone who isn’t of the “how did that make you feel” ilk. We don’t have years for psychotherapy. He needs someone much more interactive and helpful and wants it. I’ve searched google in every way I can think of and only come up with the ‘you must end it neatly and cleanly right away’ articles. OK…..but what about the anxiety, wanting to see her, etc? He needs help to make it through this and relying on me is not so optimal.
HELP!!!!
Marlene,
I sent him most of your posts tonight as he asked for them to help. Your situation is so similar and he is feeling (as they all do) that his situation is unique. Thank you for what you have written. If you have any further advice in this realm I would love to hear it. My Jan 15th deadline is fast approaching. I question myself and don’t question myself on this all in a heartbeat.
To all…….any and all advice welcome. You may be picking up the pieces next week via e-mail.
Sorry to be mouthy, but I forgot something very important that I wanted to say. I always tell my kids……….who are pre-teens and having all those pre-teen and teen insecurities, to act with confidence. If they feel uncomfortable about what they are wearing, etc. if they act with confidence others will question much less and they will feel better. They’ve tried it a few times and tell me I am right.
I believe this is a wonderful life lesson that we are all learning right now. I am finding that I have to put my own advice to good use. It is the same advice Dr. Bob has given us. This is not about being cocky or ignoring our feelings of insecurity and pain. It is about feeling our feelings and being OK with that. If we are wrong in our assessment of the situation it is having the confidence to say we are wrong and moving on. Believe me….I am so NOT someone to put a good face on everything. But tonight, at my book group, I employed this and I felt really good about it. I could see the momentary surprise at times on some faces, but that quickly turned into “Oh. I get it.” They may not hold on to it, but I left no room for the comments I did not need to hear. I wanted people to see me as someone who does not have the answers but is trying to find them and not afraid to do so. I may go next month as a truly single woman who has filed for divorce. Or has a married woman trying to salvage her marriage. I don’t know. But I know it has helped me and maybe someone else in the room as well.
Live with confidence, but do NOT deny how you feel. Hope this is not to ‘preachy’ but I believe it heart and soul even if I find myself not living it on occasion.
Hi all – just wanted to add my agreement to what you have said – my experience has also been to go with your gut – the last time my husband “relapsed” was about two months ago when he got into an email correspondence after they met by chance – I believe that in addition to it being an addiction and having a cycle, I also personally believe that when they met and she didn’t kill him or snub him, he held out for that last little bit of hope that this could all come out amicably for everyone – what he didn’t bank on was 1) how guilty he felt not telling me he had seen her and was emailing her which in turn made him 2) start to act differently, which I detected because now 3) I was more in tune with his behaviors than ever before – I, like MS, found proof before I confronted him but never told him I had proof – just told him I thought he was hiding something and within seconds he sang like a bird, almost like he was relieved – I actually told him that there was maybe a downside to our communicating with one another better and that was that I was able to see when he was acting “funky”
Anyway – a little thing that just happened tonight to share with you – I got into his car and the back of the seat was pushed way back – I mentioned it to him and I asked who did that? was someone in his car in the last few days? I had just been in it on Sat. and I definitely did not have the seat back like that because it is not comfortable for me – so he said that no one had been in the passenger seat and he had no idea how it happened – Hmmm, I started to think – let me just say nothing – so I got very quiet – about 10 minutes later, he said – “look, if you are suspicious about how the seat got that way, I am telling you the truth, I don’t know – I told you that I would tell you if I had any contact with her and I am telling you I have not – haven’t seen her or emailed her or had any contact with her, may God strike me dead” – at that point I laughed (yes, actually laughed) and told him that I thought that God was probably a little too busy to take the time to strike him dead if he was lying – what I liked about this is that I didn’t have to say a word – he finally took a nanosecond to try to figure out what I was thinking rather than my always trying to figure out what’s in his head.
Anyway, DO NOT LET ANYONE tell you what you should do or feel like you have to account for staying – you are not a doormat if you are trying to salvage something that means a lot to you – if you act with integrity you have nothing to apologize for – if and when it becomes too much you will know
As far as books or articles that are helpful – I agree that they all say that the best thing to do is to go cold turkey and cut off all contact with the OP – but – there are also stories that I know where the spouse said they were doing that and only went deeper under cover – the most helpful things I read were “After the Affair” by Janis Spring – this is written to BOTH the unfaithful person and the betrayed person – I asked my husband to read it and he did – and the one I have previously mentioned “NOT Just Friends” by Shirley Glass which really gets into the ambivalence the unfaithful person can feel about the two relationships – and how hellish that is – but at least it explains a lot
Hi,
What a wonderful forum..thanks
I have just been uncovered having a 4 mth affair …internet teaxt and 7 meetings with a married woman.I was discovered by my 18 year old daughter who read disgusting pornographic texts to the OP.I am married for 20 years and this is my first ever betrayal of my wife and family.I am devestated by the hurt I have caused my family and have ended all contact with the OP.
My advice to any body is dont ever do it the pain is too much I have been a selfish fool and have handed my situation over to GOD.I am still in the home for the sake of my 10 year old daughter but my 18 and 15 year old girls hate the ground i walk on…..
Vincent
Sorry just re-reading my note actual meetings were 5 and I havnt seen the other person since the 8th of dec last.We remained in contact however up till the 6th of Jan when my affair was uncovered……….I would welcome any advice on how to try and regain my family thanks.
Marlene – funny about the seat! I had the SAME thing last week, although I didn’t confront him on it…the passenger seat was moved closer, and….the OP is shorter than me. So, of course, where did my mind wander!? And, I have heard the line, “you will be the first to know of any and all contact” and of course, he was seeing her all summer. He has also said, “do you really think I could get away with it again?” all the while he WAS!!! I think these lines are quite common!
I have also noticed a “shift” in my husband’s behavior since I’ve been very quiet and not arguing with him. I’ve been acting quite “indifferent” and I notice he’s been nicer, making dinners quite often and helping with the kids much more. I even got, “I love you sooo much” last night and he hugged me. Now, the sad part, is I always question the sincerity and wonder if he’s just trying to throw me a curve to keep me from being suspicious. That’s the part of all this that is so disturbing to me. He SEEMS genuine, but how do you REALLY know after they hurt you so bad??
Vincent
i am going to respond on the surface stroke to your question
To Vincent: My question to you is, why did you cheat in the first place and how badly did you treat your family in the process? Everyone on this site has had major heart breaking events in thier lives and for the cheater to understand how the wife/husband/boyfriend/fiancee feels you have to be honest. I know that is hard thing to understand for the cheater as it is very hard to come clean and admitt that you made the ultimate mistake but if you want to salvage what is left of your marriage, honesty is the best policy. It may hurt your spouse and you in many ways but if you are willing and want to continue your marriage you have to open up. The children are another story they looked up to you and trusted you in different ways than your wife and you will have to honest with them also but not with the facts just from your heart. Your children need to know how you feel about them and that you are not going to forsake them, EVER. Do you love your wife and do you want to spend the rest of your life with her is something you will have to ask yourself and does she love you enough after all this to ever trust you again and forgive you. Once the bond is broke all the lies, deception, defiance, anger, blame, hurt, trust, faith, caring, rudeness, are hard to forget what you no doubt dished out. Women are strange creatures and we are emotional compared to men and it is hard for the cheater to see what he/she is doing in the process to everyone around them it effects everything they do. Hard to justify in the long run when you know what you have done and come to terms with yourself I’m sure. If the two of you can talk about it and you can honestly answer any questions your wife asks you and you want this to work out it will. I really wish you the best and I am not ragging on you but it is hard for anyone to suffer the lonelyness I’m sure this has created for you both. Put yourself in her shoes if you can and what if she would have done this to you, pretty hard to think about that one. Im’ sorry just does not make up for anything it is your actions that will make all the difference in the world. Holding hands, a pat on the tush when you walk by her, cards for no reason just love, touch that I am sure she has missed through all this and what do you want from her to make your relationship better and forge forward she needs to know these things. Believe me we here feel your pain in one way or another at least you have come here on this site and you need to read everything from us all top to bottom and you will see what happens to others and hopefully understand that this could be a deal breaker in your life. Some of us women are more forgiving than others you will just have to see where your wife wants to go with all this and really it is up to you to make her feel wanted, needed, loved, cared for, respected, selfesteem restored as you can bet it has been destroyed by your actions. It will be hard for a while and she may become distant for a time, more self assured, independant and maybe even defiant but when she gets through the hurt and anger if you two can rebuild it will be better for you both as long as the LOVE is there. One comment you made about being home for your daughter, what about your wife? If you really love her you know how to make her see that, you two have many years behind you and that is good and not just a short relationship and you both know what buttons to push in each other, now is not the time to push her buttons, now is the time to start healing her and you also and that will just take time. I hope you do continue on with this site there are many of out there with many opinions and thoughts. Wishing you both the best always.
To Sandy,
Thanks for your words ….I am home because of my youngest child not for her….I dearly love my wife and family and I am totally ashamed of what I allowed to happen.I realise that I am very fortunate to be still in the family home at all.This has only broken in the last few days and at the moment all I want is what is best for them.If they decide that includes me all the better but that is for them to decide….I am here for all my family if and when they want me….and I know that their pain is a multiple of mine so it must be truly horrible..
I have answered all questions truthfully try ing to avoid further pain on the way.I did not love the OP it was just a selfish sexual act….which in no way reflects on my home sex life with my wonderful wife.
Vincent – first of all I commend you for sharing and giving us a perspective from the person who had the affair. Also, it’s comforting to know that you truly are sorry, and feel remorse and want your family. Do you feel the OP will try and contact you or did you make it very clear it was “over”?
To Liz-I have not heard from the OP since Saturday so I hope she will take what I have told her to heart.I always made it clear to her that my wife and family came first(a bit late for that now I know)and asked her not to contact me as I was trying to save my marriage and my life.
Dear all, I just put a google search on cheating partners and this site came up. Don’t know if i’m allowed to post here but I need help and advice.
A week before Christmas I found out that my boyfriend of four years had been cheating on me. I was told by the other woman who rang me anonamously telling me of the affair and that he also has a three month old baby. Shock horror of thw truth but my sixth sense has been telling me for a long time that things were not right, but he was always so good at lying and masking the truth. i would tell my friends that i had this feeling but I had no truth, he also knew i was also doubting him. i dont live with him which is where the problem is…….playing away is easier then.
Our relationship was so loving and i felt like i found my soul mate, we never argued and he was like my best friend, it was only his ego that i had a problem with, the love of being the centre of attention. I sometimes felt he would compete with me because of the attention i would get from guys, but when he showed me his jealousy of my male friends, i stopped seeing them as much because i didn’t want to hurt his feelings, i wanted to show him it was all about him and i and our future together! I showed him from the begginning what i was about and I talked openly about past relatioships, but he never did!
There were many situations where I was going to leave him but he always charmed his way back with promises of us. i told him time and time again that actions speak louder than words and i don’t believe him………….everything was blamed on work even working on the weekends to the early hours of the morning….I even told him…your not Donald Trump who works like that!
Anyway he moved the girl and the baby into his home, he says because of the baby! (This was a month before i found out) So even more embarrasment to know that she was right under my nose and I had no idea….
Christmas spoilt and new year…….this news couldn’t have come at a more worst time! i thought i could move on for the new year but he is not allowing me to! Constant texts emails and he even went and saw my mother to apologise saying he wants to marry me to prove his worth!
its not only about me but a son i have from my first ever boyfriend. They were so good together and it hurts me to think hows he has hurt us both! I’m confused as what to do, do I move on…….do i give him a second chance, how will I know he is loyal? I’m young, some would say beautiful with a lot of good qualities and I need to experience more relationships! i’m so frightened of being hurt again, I really just want to have a happy family as i never had this! I want the stabilitity of a loving home, honest parents who want to grow old together watching their families achievements! Am I asking for too much in todays society? please please what should i do, am i being weak wanting him to hold me and love me still, even though he has betrayed me? I’m so confused…..somedays I am strong then in the night i want to speak to him so badly. I’m looking for advice if any…..should i give him another chance or do i walk!
Walk. Fast. You said that this new could not have come at a worst time. How about a few years down the road, a few more children and only then you find out he’s a cheat. SORRY! But,
just trying to be honest. Good Luck!
Chanelle
Joan is absolutely right dont walk run and very fast, you are young and if you havent even married him yet dont sweat over someone who, face it had a kid even behind your back and moved in with both, you will never ever find what you seek in life upon his door, so dont even knock on it, get out while you can. The happy family think about it you him her your child and their baby, Run Run run