Learn from these real life extramarital affair coaching scenarios.
In the first section the person struggling with the marital infidelity summarizes the scenario or concern and what he/she would like to say to his/her cheating spouse.
I then outline some goals that help him/her break free from the affair.
The last and important section gets at shifting the focus away from the spouse/partner to him/her self. In other words, what does all this mean for the person on the receiving end of an extramarital affair? After that mental shift (which is NOT easy for someone in the pain and turmoil of perhaps losing one’s spouse, family, and home) I, the coach, offer phrases that he/she can relay to his/her spouse in a way that speaks directly of his/her concern and has the best chance of being heard and getting positive results.
Section 1: The “offended spouse” says:
It feels like it will never be over. Not until HE acknowledges what he did and is able to accept my forgiveness and show that he has changed the way he lives his live. I honestly want to have cordial relationship with him, but because he cannot “own” what he has done he continues to act like a jerk toward me when there is no reason for it. I don’t trust myself to pick another partner. I don’t want to put anymore energy into developing a new relationship with another man. It is hard to keep my relationships with my in-laws, though we are very fond of each other and they have been very supportive of me.
Section 2: Personal goals suggested by the coach:
- Shift focus from him and what he is not doing to declaring your own standards for a relationship.
- Learn to value your internal signals in relationships as having validity.
Section 3: What the affair means for the “offended spouse” and what he/she REALLY wants to say to his spouse/partner having the affair:
- This tension seems to drag on and on. I want to see an end. I need some hope.
- I want us to create a cordial relationship. I would want you to have that wish also.
- There are some standards I have for a relationship. I need to work on those ?” to let you know exactly what I’m talking about when I say that.
- I struggle with reading the signals from you (or other men). I doubt myself. I wonder if I can ever have a relationship where I feel peace.
What is your situation? Describe your situation. Let it flow. Don’t hold back. Then, ask yourself, “What does this marital mean for ME?” What impact does his/her extramarital affair have on my feelings, thoughts and actions? Then rehearse approaching your spouse/partner with phrases that convey the meaning and impact of the infidelity for YOU.
Thanks for all of your comments.
Dave, I guess I mostly feel a lot of guilt, and why should I be upset with him? I don’t think that he is physically cheating on me…but I do not like the messages. I don’t think that he intends to stop, he said that he enjoys it. I do know that when I read the first message…my heart dropped. I was in so much pain…and then I thought this is only a fraction of the hurt that I put him through. As of now…I still check his messages (when he doesn’t hide his phone) but I have noticed that the more open I am with him, the more attention that I give to him, there are not as many messages.
Liz, I can understand all of your questions. For me…I am less likely to ever do this again. I saw so much pain, hurt, anger with my husband …that I never want to put him through that again. I almost lost my family. I am pretty sure that originally my husband only stayed for our 6 year old daughter, but now I know that he wants to stay because of me. As for the questions about the OP. This is difficult, because I don’t want to cause doubts in any of your minds. Honestly it has been 7 months, and it does get better with time. Time can heal. At first I missed the OP terribly. He was my friend. I didn’t miss the physical part of the affair…I missed my friend. My husband and I have a hard time communicating, and the OP and I did not. I am not justifing what I did, but as all of you know there were problems in my marriage long before the affair began. Neither my husband or I were happy. I just wish that we had talked about how we were feeling. I will say that it is very important that your spouse breaks contact with the OP. I thought that because the OP and I were friends prior to the affair that I could continue a friendship. I will say that it is not possible. We worked together and I did try to call it off several times, but it was like a temporary time of insanity. I couldn’t breakfree when I saw him daily. Since the affair has ended, I have changed jobs. Because we are in the same field I occasionally have run into him. The first time it was hard and put me back to missing him. But then months went by, my husband and I got closer, we talked, all lies were out, nothing was hidden, we talk, we call, we do things with our family, and the next time I ran into the OP…I was stronger. I will say that communication is the key to working through this hard time. although my husband is sending messages to this other women…I have told him how I feel about it. I no longer just let things bother me like I used to. We talk about it. I will say that my husband would definitely leave me if I were to do this again. Liz, i think that you need to follow your gut. It has only been 3 months, and he needs to be the person to prove that he has changed. I call my husband constantly. I do not want him to ever think that I am somewhere that I don’t need to be. I tell him step by step what I did for the day. I have to make the effort, he sees it, and it is getting easier. I finally feel that he is trusting me more every day.
Steve, She doesn’t know what she wants. The trouble with women having an affair is that most of the time it is more emotional. We are emotional creatures. I feel with men is could be more about the sex…with women it is more about feeling needed, wanted, loved. She hasn’t called, maybe because she is seeing if you are going to call her. But don’t. It is her responsiblity to work on the marriage. You have done alot to tell her that you are there for her and she keeps running away. She has already taken the step to move out, and it sounds as if she is living her life with out you. She is probrobly miserable. I feel that she declined your offer to pay for the divorce because she is not sure that that is what she wants. It scares her. All she knows is that she is not happy. After reading all of your blogs I think that you should call her bluff more, and file for divorce. Of course that is just my opinion…you need to do what feels right for you. She needs to be scared that she is going to lose you. I was truely scared of losing my husband. The difference is that no one knows that I had an affair. My husband doesn’t want our friends and family to know. He thinks that he would be embarased if people know. He wants for our marriage to work, and he feels that if people knew what I did to him that people would look at him as weak for taking me back.
JuneD, thanks for your words of encouragement. I know that two wrongs don’t make a right. I have asked for forgiveness many times over. I hope that this is just a stage that he is going through. He knows that I love him, but he is still hurt.
To JG
Wow, I think its great for you to come on the blog and give
everyone an insight to the flip side of the coin. Your husband is obviouly still very hurt and in my opinion is probably feeling like he can do this because of what you did. Yes it is wrong for him to do that but I think you should be careful of how much of it you are willing to accept because of your own guilty conscience for what you did. yes what you did was wrong but you have obviously learned from your mistake and many do not. But dont think that because of your own guilt that you deserve a lifetime of it being used against you. If he has truly forgiven you then he wouldnt be doing this, forgiveness means that you allow that person back in to your life without holding anything against them, if you have to live under that it will probably cost you alot in the end. Alot of people say they forgive someone but its those little signs that show you if its really true, afterall it is just a word and as you well know with all the lies etc that go with this type of thing that words only mean something when there is evidence that stands behind it. Again yes what you did was wrong but you are growing from it and trying to make things right as alot do not do. And no it is not something you should accept as a result of you own guilt because you cannot be expected to pay forever or have it continually used against you . Go back to the forgiveness issues and make sure they are real or you will not move forward even if you think you are. Hope I havent offended you it is not my intent as I do appreciated what you are offering to everyone on the blog and it is people like you who can help shed some other light and perspective so we can all put things into their place. Thanks
Hello Everyone:
Had a bad today after 3 fairly decent ones. It’s usually a pattern for me, I can’t seem to go one full entire week since discovering my husband’s affair where I don’t break down and cry, or get angry. My goal is to go a week, that’s all I pray for right now.
June- that’s so wonderful that your husband’s family supported you. I wish mine had. It was like a double whammy having him betray me, and then his family not being there for me. They used the excuse they were “uninvolved”, but I still felt at one point they could have called and asked how the kids and I were doing. That hurt a lot. I learned that if my son (God forbid!) ever cheated on his wife and my grandchildren, I will make sure that his wife knows that she has my full support. Right is right, and wrong is wrong, family or not. That’s just my personal opinion.
JG – thank you for your honesty about the subject. I really appreciate the insight. When I first discovered my husband’s affair, I filed for divorce the next day (yep, very fast, I know!). We decided to try and reconcile about a week later and he told me he was trying to put the OP “out of his head” and that “he never once quit loving me through his affair” and that his hope was that our marriage would work out. He also told her that leaving me and the kids was never an option for him. The part that really upsets me the most is he told me she was “willing to meet him once a month if that’s what it took”. I feel like they made a certain pact to meet up with each other behind my back. You can imagine how much my trust in him has been shattered. He also, like you, panicked when he thought of losing the kids and me. He said his affair was “impulsive and it was all about him” that he was “selfish” and wanted something “just for him”. Currently, he is bending over backwards to try and regain my trust. I know we have a long road ahead and I know that if I find out about any contact between him and the OP, that I will file again, and there will be no chance of reconciliation for me ever again. I made this very clear to him. He also told me that since he knew the OP prior to the affair, that he could continue a relationship with her also. This is not acceptable for me and I am sure most betrayed spouses would never agree to that. The OP lives so close to our house, (about 7 minutes) and that is very hard for me also. I know I can’t control what he or she does, but I hate knowing she’s right around the corner, and I feel that is very tempting for him, especially if we have problems in the future.
I have one other question for you, did your affair partner ever feel guilty?? I always wonder if they feel it or are they too wrapped up in the affair to have those thoughts?
Thanks JG. I do believe you are a gift from God to each of us here. Its great to go to counseling, but there is nothing like experience. I sent my wife a letter this morning. telling her that as of 12-31-06, that our current insurance provider will no longer be. I informed her 3 weeks ago that this was going to happen. She failed to get back with me. Do I continue to insure her & her children? I personally dont see why I should. Between her mother & I, we have made her life quite easy. I’m pretty sure its time to cut her off. I also informed her that I was going to file for divorce. Cant be married to her any longer. To much pain & no future. Amazes me how she has brought my life to a screaching hault. I not the type to get revenge. I am just looking for peace in my marriage & home. Problem with her is all the deception, half=truths, & hiding of phone bills, email, etc. I informed her that I was looking for an intimate relationship. The only way that happens is total transparency. Cant picture her confessing all. There has been so much deception. Dont understand how people can be so false with there spouse. My problem is I forgive to easy. I know that is not a bad thing, or is it? She did call this afternoon, but I did not answer. I hate to be that way. But then again I dont know which woman will be on the other end. I’ve been advised to not answer the phone, that when she gets ready to be a wife & mother & walk back in the door, then & only then should I speak to her. Is that advice appropriate in your opinion? I’ve got a million questions. I still believe that God has a plan. I dont believe He is in the business of letting the devil break up a marriage. It does get to be a load being the faithful one sitting at home keeping everything she walked out on, together. Your husband needs to put a stop to the messaging. He is not having fun, he is getting even. Where is that going to lead? Nowhere that you all want to go. The games he is playing, are going to burn him, just as your selfish behavior did. Communicate!!!!!!! After all, affairs are selfish-insane behavior. Sounds like there should be a pill for this disease.
Hello Everyone,
How would you feel if your spouse still continued to frequent an establishment where he bought drinks for his affair partner? He says she never goes there anymore. He thinks I am being unreasonable and that he can “control his own actions”, etc. Do you think this is too much to ask? Part of me thinks if he’s going to cheat, he can do it anywhere, regardless of the place. Your thoughts? thanks!
Liz-From my experience of a cheating husband and alot of reading on infidelity, I would say your husband is hoping to meet the op. He can then say it was chance. If he could control his own actions, why did he cheat in the first place? To all of you whose spouses still work or come into contact with op, it is never over until ALL COMMUNICATION IS BROKEN. This may require moving the family out of state. Temptation is too great and they are addicted. That is why it is so hard for them to break it off. They say they want to and then find they can’t. My husband has moved out of the house two months ago to “decide who he wants.” It was inevitable since this has been going on for over a year and a half. I am leaving the door open and being a doormat hoping his fog clears. The only way out is to love your spouse. If that is not enough then it will be over and you will know it and can move on. When the time is right, I will have reached a point that I am Done. My heart goes out to all of you because our stories are so similar. I keep saying, “that could be me.” Many of you have written so truthfully, – can’t control or change him/her, only ourself; only two outcomes, it will work or it won’t; concentrate on ME; remember to put the children first, they are the treasures; in-laws and family don’t want to be involved. Meanwhile we lose respect for the spouse and respect for ourselves. So, I am choosing to love my husband and work on me. That is the only choice to know I have done my best. When I have reached Done, I will feel great about myself. Don’t reach that point if you are angry, mean it when you do. I love the support we give each other. You all are in my prayers and I hope each of you find peace and love. We deserve it.
Hi all and Happy New Year – as I read through all the comments I was thinking how sad it is that there are very few unique aspects of all of these situations – rather, there is so much in common – yet I know that the cheating spouse and OP always think, “but our affair is different.”
For those of you whose spouses claim that the affairs are over but you are still “wondering” – I say continue to go with your gut and in as nonconfrontational way as possible, continue to demand honesty – I discovered my husband’s affair in Feb 2006 and confronted him but never told him what I had as proof – fortunately, he chose not to deny it – but we then entered an agonizing period during which he swore that he had cut off the physical intimacy (and I was able to prove that was the case enough times to satisfy me that it was true) but that he simply had to remain friends with the OP – she had cancer, her husband was abusive (she ended up throwing him out eventually and filing for divorce)and this woman had become emotionally dependent upon him and he just couldn’t abandon her – he was quite honest about the fact that he was still in contact – but he attempted to keep the details of the contacts secret and was protective of her identity and claimed that my not knowing ahead of time when he was going out to see her was really protecting me, etc. Therein lies a huge lesson – the stuff they will tell themselves to rationalize all of this is truly remarkable – what you thought was a relatively sane person comes up with the most outlandish and illogical thought patterns because it helps them justify what they are doing. He finally realized this could not go on because I became increasingly clearer that I would not accept it and in Sept he cut off their contact. In Nov, however, I got suspicious of him due to subtle changes in his behaviors – I first found proof (see others’ comments re spying and email)and then confronted him, but didn’t furnish the proof – just said that I had a feeling he was keeping something from me – fortunately, again, he came clean and told me that they had emailed a few times, innocently enough, and that he wanted to tell me but didn’t quite know how to do so since he knew it would upset me and would affect all the good that was happening between us (see how weirdly their minds work?) This time, I really let him have it and told him that if he wanted us to continue together he needed to fix this – right away – now this is a stubborn Italian prince (youngest and only son of his adoring mother) and he doesn’t like being told what to do – however, he snapped to it and wrote a very terse email to her telling her that he could not ever be in contact with her and not tell me because it was hurting me and making him feel guilty and he really wanted his marriage – she responded by waiting for him after work so that she could blast him in person and then followed up with a truly vicious email to him – so much for the “wonderful” person that he also said (as someone above commented) I would probably like if I met her! I had been very very careful during all of this to never assault his character but rather to criticize his behavior (in other words, it’s not who you are it’s how you behave that counts) He finally verbalized that he realized that any contact he had with her would never be innocent in my eyes and if he was going to make us work, he would have to abandon any hope of ever being a friend or helpful in any way to this person – and that she probably would just have to hate him and he would just have to live with that.
Since that time, do I still wonder? Sure! It could all be a big scam, right? He could be just better at hiding things so he can keep in contact with her. So I continue to watch and probe and will for awhile, I know – and my mind does lousy things too, like think of last Christmas when I was oblivious and realize he was probably shopping for her too. But we do know our spouses – we think that when we discover that they did something we never thought they would do, it means that we don’t really know who they are – but we do and it is what we know that will guide us in the way that is right for us – will we need continued proof and reassurance? absolutely – and we need to ask for it – no mind games or expectations that they will be able to read our minds – say what you need or feel – it doesn’t need to be an ultimatum – all the folks who said that staying calm is key are correct – ironically, it was when I “lost it” a few times that he realized I was serious, but it was because it was such a departure from my usual demeanor that he knew he needed to pay attention.
Blessings to you all – above all take care of yourselves.
Hello Everyone!
I hope we all have a great New Year and that 2007 brings us some peace and harmony in our lives.
Jean – I totally agree. I think he hopes to “run into her” becuase I think she boosted his ego so much, and he is a very self-centered and controlling man. I think he loved the attention she gave him. I, on the other hand, am very independent, and have a strong personality, full of opionions, etc. and I never feed into his ego. I think that’s the real reason he sought after an affair. His affair parter was divorced, 10 years older than me, and lonely. I think they were feeding each other’s “needs”. I also agree that I need to let go of the anger before I make any decision to be Done. I think I will feel guilty if I don’t give him a chance for our children. If he gives me any indication of being in contact with the OP at this point in our marriage, then I will feel very sure of my decision. I think he’s very fortunate to be given not one, but two chances at staying married. I decided I can’t snoop on him every day, but I am well aware of behavioral changes and I am just going to go with my gut instinct. So far, it has been right on track each time!
And Marlene – I think they rationalize their affairs completely! Any person with any kind of conscience knows that it is wrong. It’s a survival method to them to justify their actions. It’s so much easier to blame us for what “got them to this point”. Every book on affairs says you need to evaluate your roll in how your spouse strayed, etc. I understand what advice they are trying to give, but here’s my point: I honestly think cheating, is a character flaw. I think you either have it in you, or you don’t. As many problems and arguments as my husband and I both had, I would never have taken that route, and he knows this. I would have ended my marriage first. I truly beleive that is a character trait that I somehow came to aquire during my life.
Hi everyone.
Just need to share. Feeling a little lonely, a little good and a lot confused. Or maybe a lot of all of it.
Just got back from a really great holiday with my in-laws. I did not know what to expect. We went as a family and spent the better part of 4 days together. He is with the OP tonight. The first part was great the current is one but UGH!
Our relationship is making truly great progress. Things that will benefit us both no matter what happens. The time frame is mid-January….very near…..as I can not continue to be hurt like this.
With things strengthening between us, the pain of the affair gets worse. But in a weird way I am more at peace with whatever may happen. I think that is good because I know it will help me when I am in turmoil again.
For some of you this may sound ‘normal’, for others it probably sounds bizarre. All I know is that the honesty is helping me to heal. He says he is taking to steps to end it, but is unwilling to make promises. I’d like him to be able to promise, but don’t want him to if he can’t. Sometimes we talk in a dance as I am not able to handle knowing more at the time and he is never quite sure of what he can tell me to help or if it will hurt. We talk about that too.
The kids had a great time with their cousins and talk very clearly about understanding what is happening and also feeling confused by it. His sister is my greatest source of support. His mother is a bit of a thorn for all of us as this doesn’t fit into a nice ‘box’ for her and she is constantly trying to impose some sort of ‘box’ on us. I have to give her that as it is so painful for us all.
I think we all have so many of the ‘same’ feelings but the circumstances and our personalities lead us to treat things in different ways. Every action has a response and it is very hard not to overthink the actions and make ourselves more crazy.
One of the things that helped the most these past few days was to allow myself to feel whatever I was feeling, keep the response as neutral as possible, but remain clear that I was not OK with sharing my husband with anyone and it will not continue…one way or the other.
This has had a tremendous impact in the positive. I think our spouses do need to recognize and believe what they will lose….and we do too. I need to be clear that I truly want this relationship in its new form and that I do not want him if he does not want me…and enough to lose her.
At the same time, being willing to listen, talk and take the time has helped him to come out of the ‘fog’. He is not totally out of it, but is sooo much more clear. He rarely says crazy things now and is able to say ‘thank you’ for giving him the time to calm some of the inner turmoil.
All this said, it makes it more clear to me that the OP needs to go (not that I ever felt otherwise). Just that there is no more ‘time’ for her to be in the picture. The damage to me is real and severe. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I feel strongly about it, but I wonder if, when mid January arrives, and he says he needs more time (which I hope won’t happen, but I am a realist) that I will give in, again. I don’t want to give ‘us’ up, but the contiuing damage makes me wonder how we would ever be able to repair it. I know I’ll have to help him through the loss and he will need to help me through the insecurity. If I have much more pain I will need too much myself. Is it really possible for us both to need so much and help each other through?
I just got a call that our closest group of friends are having our usual New Year’s Eve family party and they want us all to come. There is a part of us that wants to go and a part that does not. We still have too many chapters to write in this story. Should I just trust that they understand we still may not be together? They all know the full picture and have been incredibly supportive. Are we asking too much of ourselves right now?
I know this is a long entry. I have way too much mulling through my head and don’t know how to seperate it out. The peace is there in the underlying of it all, but it is really hard to plant both my feet on it. Whether you respond to me or not. Please keep writing. It helps me so much to read ALL that is being said.
peace to us all.
Liz
You are so right about the family thing. 26 yrs in his family and they threw the door wide open for her and closed it on me. I apent many a day making bonds with these people between me and my children. I was the favorite daughter in law. I am still distant friends with one of the other daughter in laws and the other had always been jealous so she used this unfortunate circumstance to drive wedges that never should have been. I have already had long talks with my boys and if they ever do that to anyone what was done to us out of pure selfishness i told them I would kick their you know what to the moon. At first they did defend me but it drove him into hiding, I felt horrible for the kids because they were innocent in all of this. We had spent every Christmas there since they were born. I can remember the first xmas we were told we were not allowed to come my children cried, they will never feel the same way about them again. No one was ever asking them to choose between him or us, but to stand up for what is right and support the innocent children in doing so.
They had a great relationship with the kids through me before this and now they have very little left with them , guess it wasnt important enough to them.
And as for the op if they feel guilty, if they did they wouldnt be doing it. they have been told things about you so that they cannot have the compassion necessary to be able to feel this . I have had opportunity to become involved with a married man since this happend to me and not only did I encouraged him immensely to get counselling etc, when he tells me things about her I know its only to try to make me feel sorry for him. Little does he know that even if he left her I would never touch him , because I know given the opportunity he would cheat with me and the last thing I want is a cheater. His wife is cheating on him and I think he feels its ok to do the same. she is suicidal and he doesnt want to leave until she is stable . I think its all BS. He is a nice person and everything but I already have no respect for him. he knows my story so why in gods green earth would he think I would ever do this to another person/family. Not in a million. His wife is fortunate that he run into me and not someone willing to listen to the crap that goes with the self pity of establishing this kind of relationship. he works for me part time as my mechanic but little by little he has ruined a friendship we had by crossing a line that he has been told by me without a doubt will not happen in my day. I rarely call him out at this point as he will not give up or get the point no matter how much I tell him. Some people just never get it and I think its time I found a new mechanic as I am getting a little tired and angry with him about it.
I guess at this point they deserve each other.
Hi Everyone,
Sue- I think you definately are right in giving your husband the ultimatum. And if he choses the OP and takes that path, he has everything to lose and you will be that much better off. Think of the OP is a “crutch” for your husband. It’s not true love. True love is good times and bad times, being there when your children are born, babies keeping you awake, going to weddings and funerals together, sickness and health, family and friends. This is what marriage is and what true love is. I honestly believe when someone leaves their spouse for an affair partner, they have no clue what they are truly giving up until it’s too late. Affairs are “fun” (until discovered of course!). Think about it, who wouldn’t want to meet someone, looking your “best”, being on your best behavior, no real strings attached, no kids to chase after, etc. Of course this relationship is very appealing.
But, when the reality sets in, of day to day life, I think they will discover the OP is just a regular person, with regular issues, and the allure of the excitement will eventually fade. Then they are left with a relationship what was based of lies and betrayal. Not a foot to start a relationship on! So, if he picks the OP, just remember this. Work on YOU. My theripist tells me this constantly, and it’s starting to really help me.
stay strong. I am planning on going away with my husband over New Years, just the two of us, and I decided to take it day to day. We too were invited to a New Year’s party among close friends and I am just not up to it. It does feel awkard when eveyone knows your story. You feel like you are on display.
Shennie – You are so right on about the married guy. Especially after all you have been through, you can see right through his lies. Of course they make it seem like they don’t care about their spouse. I know for a fact that my husband told his OP terrible things about me. They do this #1 to justify their affiar, and #2 if they told the OP that their spouse was wonderful….wouldn’t the OP wonder what the heck they were doing with them in the first place? It only makes sense. And, I agree, they want you to feel sorry for them, and to rescue them. They want you to make them feel special and make them the center of attention! Please find a new mechanic.
Also, I found out the other day that my husband has been writing down phone numbers off of my cell phone bill. I saw the numbers on a piece of paper. So, now, he’s checking up on me!! And he is the one who had the affair. Has anyone found that their spouse becomes paranoid that you are doing something wrond? Is this their guilty conscience? He knows that I strongly disagree with cheating, so why is he checking up on me? Any insight would be appreciated!
To Sue – from my perspective you are in the right place – I also set “deadlines” in my head – but I never gave them to him, I just kept them to myself and did everything I could to prepare for the final moment when I would walk away if he could not completely let this person go – I continued to get stronger in my awareness that there were no extenuating circumstances – the OP had to go and had to go completely – and I continued to confront him with how this was just wrong – not morally or ethically, so much, but wrong for a truly intimate relationship, the kind he felt we didn’t have and that was why he got drawn into the affair, so he says – what I found was that the stronger I got in my convictions and the closer I came to my mental deadlines, the more I did feel calm – and the more he seemed to be listening and to finally try to break it all off – he made tremendous mistakes – he continued to be sweet and reinforcing to her in his ambivalence (took a phone call from her for example) and in his hopes of letting her down easy – it didn’t work because she just kept thinking there was hope – and I told him directly that he was sending her (let alone me) very mixed messages – he kept saying that what was happening between him and me was so much better – and it was – that I should know that she was no longer a threat to me even if he continued his contact with her – bottom line – that was all so that he didn’t have to feel like a heel letting her down and that just doesn’t work – it took him a long time to realize that I meant that – he was truly going to lose me and for good, in exchange for his stubborn attachment to this person – I guess he decided that was too high a price. He also began to see what I knew all along – there was no way for them to be friends and the stuff I saw that she wrote to him (he knows I saw it) made that very clear – she wanted a romance and continued to want it.
I have gone over things a million times in my head and wonder if I should have acted more definitively earlier and thrown him out when he continued to insist on seeing her “as a friend” – maybe – what I do know is that allowing him and me to have time together, rather than apart, allowed us to really improve some things, mostly our communication and intimacy – so that if he was faced with the choice between her and me, it was now no longer as easy a choice as it would have been if I had simply been an angry raving lunatic or if the feelings he had about us were all the negative ones that he had that helped him justify his affair. What I think you are experiencing now is the heartbreaking sense you have that you and your husband can really make a good marriage, if only he will get rid of the OP – I was in the same place – but what it told me is that the more I loved him, the more I realized I just couldn’t share him – and I told him that over and over – and asked him to put himself in my place for a nanosecond – there is no logical or persuasive argument why the OP has to go – it just is what it is. As for the party with your friends? I will tell you I seized every opportunity to have pleasant and positive social experiences as a couple but you need to do what will make you most comfortable. And Liz – as for people having a cheating propensity or not – I agree that there are people who would never attempt to solve their issues by having an affair, they choose other ways to address their problems, hopefully more constructive ones – but having just had a conversation with my 26 year old son, who is a wonderful guy even if I say so myself, about his relationship with his girlfriend and another young woman who seems to be catching his interest, I realize what a slippery slope it is and how easily we slide down into it! The difference? we all have those feelings and sparks for other people – what separates us is whether or not we act upon them – fortunately, I chose to tell my kid about his dad’s affair and I think that this infidelity pattern (my dad was unfaithful to my mom for a very brief time many years ago – they will be married 60 years in 2007) can stop with my son’s generation as far as our family is concerned – and if there was anything good that came out of the affair, maybe it’s that
Please let us know what happens – my heart goes out to all of you even as I continue to lick my own wounds – it always helps to “talk”
To Liz
What I dont understand is that in the last 4 yrs he has worked for me and taught me how to fix things myself he has witnessed first hand the pain and suffering in my family and in myself. I didnt even know he felt this way about me until this last year. I thought when he joked about stuff like that it was just that a joke, and then when I realized it was no joke I tried to get him to understand and learn from my experience but he cant. I fear that if I get involved with someone he will leave her for fear of losing me which he doesnt even have anyway, he has so much as indicated that. The problem is in the last 4 yrs he has developed a close relationship with my kids and they love him to death he uses them to get to me asks them for brownie points. I have talked with my kids and told them I will never be with him ever and why. They understand but cannot help themselves as they have no father figure and they truly care about him. His daughter also involved with the kids and encourages this with him. I dont know what to do. He is a really nice person and I hate to hurt him but I dont feel the way he does for my own reasons. He is coming over tonight to bring gifts for the kids, hes been there for them for everything and if Id known he would have turned the tables I would never have hired him in the first place. I actually grew up with his older brothers and it has been brought to my attention that he always had this huge crush since he was ten but I was older and our paths never crossed. I really dont know what to do, I just want to sit him down and talk and make him see the truth but dont want to hurt him or sit his wife down and talk I have met her a few times but she is in her own world with another man, her own kids cant even stand her as they have all lived with this for ten yrs now, their entire married life, he raised her kids from a previous marraige and had one together for a total of 5. He is closer to her kids than she is even. I would just like for them to work it out and to not teach their kids to repeat what they are both doing.We have been great friends but for me thats all it is and I would like to keep the friendship and the wonderful things he has brought to the kids lives, it has made them believe there are good people out there. If it wasnt enough to go through all of this to have something like that to deal with on top of it. My goal was to help him save his marraige but he wont listen.I feel so sick to my stomach about it its not even funny.
About your husband writing down your phone numbers , usually people who cant be trusted are often suspicious of others that way. Whatever he checks of yours would be what he himself may do. or Maybe he is looking for some flaw in you to clear himself.
To everyone. Today I learned some news about a friend which might help to divert your sufferings, a friend of mine, her son was diagnosed with cancer one year ago he was only 15 yrs old. My kids used to dance with him and his brother until our lives were turned upside down. Just before xmas he took a turn for the worse and the family has entered a hospice in the last couple of days, I only hope god does not call him home on new years day I lost someone once on that day and is not good. he is only 16 now and so much reason to live but will not, its things like this that let us count our blessings so to speak and make us realize there are worse things in life though it may not seem so. His mother wrote this saying to remind us all of lifes precious moments. it goes. Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take but the moments that take our breathe away. it is so true. Another is to never save anything for a special occasion for everyday in your life is a special occasion. Its things like this that keep from thinking of myself and making me look deeper into life and hopefully will do the same for you.
To Shennie –
I am very proud that you have the morals that you do. Was this guy friends with your ex? Just wondering. I feel the same way that you do, I could never get involved with a married man after knowing the destruction it has on so many lives. And he works for you? that realy complicates the issue, I agree. He does sound like a nice person, and is probably really lonely since his wife treats him like this.
As for my husband looking up phone numbers in my cell phone, I think he is either paranoid that I am cheating (which isn’t the case of course!) or, I agree with you, he wants to get some dirt on me so he can tell his friends and famiy to make hiself look better. He can look all he wants, I have nothing to hide.
And for your friends son, he is in my heart and prayers. I agree with you that as bad as infidelity is, life does go on and there are many, many people much worse off then all of us. It does put things into perspective. Life is very precious and I try and focus on my children and be grateful they are healthy. No matter what my husband did to me, he can’t take that away from me.
Last night was bad again. I wanted to “talk” and my husband said that we do too much talking and too much thinking. He doesn’t understand that in order for me to get through this, I need to be able to communicate with him at all costs. It still has only been 3 months since his affair ended and I am not even close to feeling OK about it. I’ve read it takes anywhere from 2 – 4 years to heal. He says I can ask him anything, then when I do, he gets upset and tells me that I need to get it “out of my head” and move on. I cried once again most of the night and in the morning, I was seriously considering divorce once again. I feel so hopeless. The physical part is there, but not the emotional. I also am in the same boat as a lot of you, I want to give it a timeline, but what do you base it on? any thoughts?
Hi everyone.
I agree with Shennie. There are people in our lives dealing with terminal things and it has made all of us say that we are thankful despite the pain and suffering we have been enduring. We don’t deny our feelings, just put them in some perspective. We will be OK.
Thanks to all for your comments. Liz and Marlene, I feel you ‘get’ where I am at. Today he told me (when I asked very specifcally) that he will break it off with her and wants us to work on our relationship and family. He has said such over the past few weeks especially, but this was much more direct. He is using the timeline I have given to try to elicit a mutual understanding between him and the OP to go their seperate ways. He believes this will be better for us all in the long run. I agree.
However, I told him that I am not in way convinced she will come to this conclusion. He said he will ‘lower the boom’ if necessary, but stills wants to try a more compassionate route. He understands that once it is over there can be no contact and he needs to be transparent to me (which is pretty much the case now). I agree with this tact despite the pain of it only because I also hope that it would allow for a more complete break in the long term without her desperation knocking at our door.
It still scares the pants off of me that the situation could turn on a dime. I’m prepared (or as much as I can be) but I so appreciate both of our efforts at this point that I have re-opened myself to more pain. I’m also thankful that he is not begging me….just being straight and at earnest. There is a respect in that which does not really exist for the simple virtue of the OP still being in the picture and that is truly confusing. I think Marlene named it.
I am ‘running away’ again tomorrow for a night with the kids as I think it will be better for all of us. This part of the process is so painful (what hasn’t been?) but I have to take care of me. I’m bringing my laptop in hopes of staying connected to you all.
One last thing…..on the in-law account. I had a great time with my husband’s family, but if I, for more than a second, think too hard about my mother-in-law’s comments or actions I could destroy all of our relationships. (Well, not really, as her kids see her craziness in equal amounts.) The point is that I really believe that as some people get older the rest of us realize that they have not taken advantage of life’s lessons in a positive way. This leaves them confused, scared and still scrambling when something like this happens in their family. They can’t possibly believe they could raise a child to do something like this. So they make excuses, blame us, grasp at straws. It hurts. But if we take care of ourselves, we can stand up to them and tell them the importance of their grandchildren. And hopefully we will never be them.
In my case this has made an incredible difference all the way around. The kids know her craziness (I say that a bit tongue in cheek) as well but are still so happy she spent time with them this Christmas. I know it has a lot of facets to it and it often does not work, but I still believe that the more confident (not ‘in your face’, but confident) we are the harder it is for these people (including our spouses) to look the other way.
I hope ‘running away’ will buy me some more sanity for 2 more days!
Hi to all! It sounds like Christmas for most of you turned out as good as could be expected, especially for the kids. I did say earlier that my husband’s affair strengthened my bond with my in-laws but I need to clarify that we have not separated. If I were to throw him out or if he were to leave, I’m sure things would change. I’m sure they wouldn’t disown him. Also, my mother-in-law is from the old school and believes that if the husband is providing a good income and not “running around” (though according to her they all do it), then I should be happy. I need to move forward and in some ways I agree. But our marriage started having troubles after the twins came. He didn’t realize how much work and time kids would take (especially twins) and he was very business oriented and liked his hobbies. He had very little time for us. He’s never been romantic, not one to sit and make out, doesn’t write notes or cards or say I love you very often. And although I missed that, it was ok b/c I figured that’s how he was and I got a lot of kisses and love yous from my kids. But with the affair, he was txt messaging her 20x a day and e-mailing her “I love you, I miss you, I can’t live w/o you” and leaving her notes and meeting her and making out with her. So basically, it wasn’t that he didn’t like kissing or being romantic, he just didn’t like doing it with me. He found time to meet her, but never found time for me. He does make time now b/c he feels like he has to or else I’ll think he’s still cheating. So I would like to move forward, but he doesn’t want to go to counseling and he’s content to have our marriage go back to the way it was b/f the affair. But if it was so great b/f, then he wouldn’t have cheated. Obviously there was something lacking. So why doesn’t he want to fix it? And if we don’t fix it, then I think he’ll only cheat again. During his affair, we talked a lot and he opened up to me with all the things he was feeling and all the things he hadn’t been happy with during our marriage (which he never shared with me). I thought a lot of it was petty (there weren’t always apples in the fridge) and maybe they were just ways to justify why I was a bad person (couldn’t be him so there had to be a reason why he was cheating). But now he doesn’t want to talk at all and if I say anything at all about how our marriage is going, he gets very upset and accuses me of moving our marriage backwards. But aren’t spouses suppose to talk? We never did b/f his affair and we grew apart and neither of us ever knew that anything was bothering the other. I want to move forward but I didn’t go through 1 & 1/2 years of hell to end up where I was b/f the affair. I don’t want to go through this again in 5 years or even 1 year. He says he’s here b/c of the kids and no one else is raising them but him. But I want him to stay for me. Am I expecting too much?
Steve- Be careful about her no longer being on your insurance policy. As long as you are married, I believe you are responsible for 1/2 the debt she incurs that is medically related. So if something happens to her or her kids and she’s not insured, you may have to pay 1/2 her bills. Check w/ your attorney first. Your state may also have a separation agreement that you can both sign so that you are not long obligated for anything. I agree that God is not for divorce. He says he hates it. But remember the prodigal son. When he wanted to leave, the father gave him his share and let him go and only when he hit rock bottom, did he realize what he lost and returned home. The father didn’t beg him to stay, or bribe him. He let him go. And sometimes, we have to let them go. Maybe then she’ll realize what she’s lost and she’ll return. And if she doesn’t, then you haven’t lost anything. Good luck and I’m so sorry for what you’re going through.
Liz- My husband periodically checks my stuff too. He has no reason to. I’ve never cheated, but when they destroy trust it’s on both sides b/c now they know the deception that someone is capable of. Part of the problem with having an honest wife is that they take you for granted. They don’t worry about you cheating and so they aren’t jealous. One of my counselors told me that no one wants what no one else wants. In other words, if they think that others want you then they start to pay more attention to you and are more jealous. I know this is extremely juvenile! But it is true. Give him a couple of numbers on your phone to be concerned about and see if it doesn’t make him pay more attention to you. Obviously he’s getting worried. btw… I’m not one to play games. I’m too honest, but sometimes when you’re so open, it lets others take advantage of your vulnerability. And that is really pathetic. Oh, and the bar thing… completely unacceptable! How would he like it if you hung around your old boyfriends establishments. I also think it sounds like he’s hoping to “run into her”. If I were you, I would “run into him” there and quite a lot too. Then that would take the fun out of going there wouldn’t it? Good luck!
Hi Liz
No he did not know my ex not personally anyway, he started to work for me 4 yrs ago when I found myself engulfed in many a mans job and worked desperately to learn the ropes of mechanical technology.. Since then he has been there for me that way and been a sounding board. He has come to the rescue when we were stranded(car troubles etc.) in my own fathers and husbands absence. We have developed a great friendship and I would like to keep it and keep it that way. He came last night and gave me gold earrings placed on the bowtie of a huge teddy bear,some of my favorite candles and chocolates etc. He brought the kids stuff and we watched movies and then worked on my car. I think he is realizing and settling back with my decision the stand back from him at least last night things were more to the norm thank god. I do want to be there for him as he is not just an employee but a true friend but definately not in that way. So hope those were good signs.
My friend is in so much pain right now losing a wonderful son and i so wish I could help but no one can take a mothers pain in this kind of situation. He is still hanging on but all are praying for god to end his pain and suffering even though we dont want to lose him the time has come.
Things do change with the family I think you are right that they just have never wanted to face something such as this and is difficult to accept truths about it. I hope for you they realize and put it into perspective.
Wishing you all a Happy New Year
Hi liz dont know why that came up anonymous but it was me???
I feel that if he wants to be forgiven then he will have to ask for that and he has not the only thing he said to me was, “I feel bad that this hurt you so badly and I am sorry about that”. What did he expect? No I’m sorry, nothing so in my mind he is not sorry for what he did & it will probably happen again in my mind. I cannot change the way I feel about this and he cannot say I’m sorry for what he did to me. So where does that leave me to go with him, nowhere. I think when someone cannot face the truth about themselves and what they did no matter who they are they are just hiding from thier own self guilt and they feel sorry for themselves, poor me. He says “I know you are not happy and you should feel lucky you have a man who loves you and will take care of for the rest of your life”. My thought to that was, who are you kidding, me or yourself, lucky. What does he think, he walks on water. People who love one another do not hurt and abuse the person they are with emotionally/pysically/verbal and when it all comes crashing down how do you take back the ugly words. You cannot!!! He does not think in his mind he has hurt me at all in one way he said to me “you are not an abused person” and I thought about all the ugly things he said to me and called me what do you think that is. He has no clue in that department of his mind and if he does he does not care. He just thinks I should forget it all and be happy that he is now coming home and wants this to work out. What sort of trade off am I in for was the question I asked myself and in what capacity am I really here for. Am I here for me/him/us I am to the point of indifference if it works fine and if not I tried my best for a long time and that was not good enough for him then so what all of sudden changed for him. Did he get a wake up call from above or did the OP want more than he could give. I think the later because he does not want any responsibility or be tied to anyone he just wants his cake and eat it to is what I think. I believe she told him to make a choice as no woman stays in a relationship for 2 years without promises made for any lengh of time even though he told me he did not make her any promises, I know that was a lie, he said “its just the way it is and she understands that I am not ever going to leave you”. Women do not think like that because we are emotional creatures and she wants him to her self and I told him that. He said “she is just my friend you do not understand” and in the next breath “we have talked about moving in together”. I said “forget about what you have done to me/us think about her and she does not like you leaving her bed anymore and you have hurt her also and if she means that much to you, you need to be where you are wanted, needed and a happy man so pack up and go I will be just fine it’s not fair to me, you or her to live this way”. He said nothing. He has allot of guilt and he regrets allot and I know it but that’s not enough for me. Change of subject for a moment. I watched a show on TV one day also about predators and he has a friend, she is only that but I know he slept with her also but she fits the profile of one and believe me she would do anything to get me out of the way and I told him that also. I said “do you think she would hurt me in any way” he said no but I know differently. The light came on for me when I heard this doctor talk to people on the show even though I have thought this it is not in my realm of life to think like this but I will be more careful now. She saw something she thought she could not have and went after it with a vengence and she did succeed in many ways but now she ended up without what she really wanted, him and she would now destroy us both if she could and has said many terrible things about us both in public that I have heard by very trust worthy people who have no reason to lie to anyone. I do not talk about this with him as he protects her like crazy but I think he knows what she is all about now, a bit to late but he knows. As the doctor said on the show they wear many masks and she did a number on him like you would not believe. She knows what she did but she did not believe that I would stay I would pack up and leave when I found out. She is just a tramp and her home is known about town as the _ Spot Coral. In my heart I cannot believe all that has happened here and I think he found the other side of life exciting beyond anything he had ever done in his life and went for it. This once really decent man is just a weak soul without a consience and in his heart there is an emptiness that he will never recapture. I know he is ashamed by this as people have called him a pig in public and I was right there and many people heard it what or how does anyone deal with that. What would a man think I have no idea? Can someone answer this question for me? How would that make you feel? I for one would have crawled in a hole and never showed my face again there. On the bright side of things I am fine and I guess I just have a inquiring mind as I want to know as much as I can and arm my emotions so that I won’t be hurt like this again by the only person in my life that I have loved so long and so hard. Faithful to end is my moto, never have lied to him, never cheated and who knows where all that will get me probalby no where but my life will be better after all this, that I promised myself. Who would have ever thought our lives would have ever turned out this way, not me that’s for sure I have never lived like this in my life. Hope for us all a better 2007, Happy New Year
to Shennie – thoughts and prayers to your friends – we do need to take a step back and think about what really matters in life and put our own stuff in perspective – it’s too bad that most of us can’t do that until we hear a story like this.
to June D – I also had the knowledge that my husband wrote very romantic things to her because I read at least some of them – once he had ended his contact with the OP, I did speak to him about this and it did give him something to think about – I told him that I “knew” he must have been very romantic to her and that I knew that the affair must have been very stimulating and exciting – and that in some ways I envy that he has had that experience – that took him aback and he asked if I “wanted” that experience – I told him that no, I would never cheat, but it is enticing (after 36 yrs. with the same person) to think about falling in love all over again – he reminded me that early in our marriage he tried to be romantic with me and that I rebuffed him (this was his perception – reality? who really knows?) and that he knows I want certain things from him but he is not “ready” to be romantic again – a few months after he ended contact, he met her by chance and made the huge error of following up with an email – fortunately I could see that he was acting weird and confronted him and he nipped it in the bud again which totally infuriated her – he then followed that up with a dozen roses and a beautiful card to me thanking me for having hung in there with him -so there is a possibility of reigniting some romance I guess
to Liz – how did I determine the timeline? I frankly based it upon what was the most advantageous for me and the most practical – we had a ton of social stuff going on this summer, vacations, etc – so my deadline date was after all of that was over and I was still not back into the new school year (he and I are both public school teachers) – what I will say is this – the closer the deadline came and the stronger my resolve came the more confidence I had to make him accountable and shake things up rather than tippy toe around – it was as if I didn’t care anymore if he got angry because I knew that I was going to do what I was going to do when the time came – I was lucky – by the time my deadline date came, he had told her that he would not see her anymore – as I said, his huge error was thinking that would be it and in thinking she would go away happy – in my readings, rarely does the OP exit quietly when it is our spouse who is cutting it off – so I would be wary of that – to be honest, I feel as if my husband’s OP may have done something more foolish if she were not in the middle of a messy divorce from her husband who as far as I know is completely unaware of this affair – she has to be careful as she needs the house (she has no job) and wants to keep thier child I am sure
JG,
Thanks for your concern. So far the marriagemax thing is working – it has helped me in that it is all about putting your issues on hold temporarily and building a better relationship first. It is kinda deep in that it’s about taking responsibility for your actions, and doing the right thing as far as your values are concerned (not your feelings). When you decide to act and be happy, you will become happy and your partner will see it as well. On a down side, my wife says that she doesn’t feel anything any more – on the up side, she hasn’t left, doesn’t want a divorce, has agreed to the marriagemax program and even called and made a private session with the counselor (wow!). I will become a better person because of this, I honestly question whether my wife will get this, she has built a huge wall and seems to be stuck looking backwards. Time will tell. I believe that she has stopped seeing the OP; one of the action items that the marriagemax program suggests is to stop spying – this tells your spouse that you believe that they have the ability to be trusted again. I remain skeptically optimistic.
Hi Everyone,
June – I got the same sort of thing, “I am sorry I hurt you”. Then, he proceeded to tell me that he doesn’t feel stuff or react to things the way that I do. (no kidding). And, he said he was “sorry” when I discovered his affair the first time, and contined to cheat and lie so to me, it’s just a “word”. I also think my husband is verbally abusive and I think he thinks if he is physically here in the home, and pays the bills, etc. that I should be grateful? I have told him numerous times that without his wife home, taking care of OUR children that he would not have had all the lesiure time to spend with his girlfriend. It’s utterly amazing how they justify and view the world.
Everyone – stay strong! I am going out of town in the morning and returning on Tuesday. I can’t wait to read all of your posts when I get back. You are all in my thoughts.
Shennie- Please know your friend is in my prayers. I know this is a very difficult thing for you and my heart goes out him and your friend. Talk to you soon!
Liz
Hi everyone
Well my friends son passed away at noon today after his year long battle. Although it is hard to lose someone you love it is even harder to see the pain they are in. The family has had immense support in this last year to help them through, they have a website for him with over twenty thousand entries over this last year. Its truly amazing for them to know and feel all that support and comfort,They have had fundraisers, functions people to cook and clean and do errands etc. I can remember back when my ex left that my daughter had said she wished he had just died so we could grieve like normal people and have that kind of love and support people give when you experience the loss of a loved one. Because we were abandoned by him it felt that way to her but instead of feeling sadness and grief for it all she felt anger and resentment as the rest of us did also.
I know it seems like a stupid time for me to talk that way but it has come to my mind as my friend (the mother of this boy)had called me one time and she said herself to me that how it is so unfortunate that when someone leaves in this way you really dont get the support you need and that some even run the other way,and that it difficult to grieve for them when they are gone but here. she said this becasuse at that time we had lost a mutual friend and a zillion people came running, people who never bothered to care before, people who looked to their own attention by giving compassion . She said that it was unfair and that a loss was a loss, and that we couldnt find closure as we not only couldnt contact him but could not bury him and get passed it either. I know it is no comparison to the loss of a child but she herself felt this way as her mother had also suffered something similar. I know this is no comparison to what she and her family have had to suffer but it was her that brought it to my attention.
My heart is so heavy for her right now and that because of my own things I have had to deal with I have not been there for her as I should have. I feel so guilty for this and cannot find the words to express my compassion. I feel so badly and this last 4 years for me myself have been my own blurr of time. Some days I havent know one day from the next, and feel so alone.
The funeral isnt until after new years so I have until then to pull my emotions together and find a way to offer of myself what i can. He was such a cute boy and he danced at a dance studio with my girls before he became ill. We all went to competitions together and had so much fun, my friend his mom was always the life of the party and now she is so broken and no one can really help fix this and she will never be the same. I guess time will help to heal but I know she has found solace that his pain and suffering has ended. I wish so badly I hadnt been going through my own turmoil and was able to be there for her more. I withrew myself so much from the rest of the world and didnt want to look and see what was going on anywhere else cause I just couldnt deal with anything more than i was. I feel like such a bad person for this and now I cannot make anything up to her. I am so filled with sadness , I know she understands but yet I am still finding myself angry at myself for not rising above my own difficulties. I have always put others first and I feel I could have done so much more that I didnt for her and her family. My daughter started having recurring memories of this and again brought up her issues upon learning of his death and she has seen so deeply how they have had such love around them in their grief and she is still grieveing and angry and will not let this go. She has huge morals and will never forgive him for doing this to her life.
God please tell me how I can fix anything I guess some things just cant be fixed. For now I need to find a way to be strong for her loss and all of our losses as he touched so many of our lives . Maybe I have kept hiding so as not to face my own loss because I cant for the way things are. I know when I see them I am going to fall apart and I cant stand the thought of it all. I just want to be strong for them and be there for them. We will all miss him dearly but no mother should ever have to lose a child so young, life just isnt fair.
Shennie – So sorry for your friend. She and you and your daughter are in my prayers. You can’t fix anything. No one can. Just be there for your friend. When all those who have descended on her leave, she will need you even more. And don’t isolate yourself. Most of the time people want to be there for you, they just don’t know what to say. Years ago a friend’s husband had an affair on her. I didn’t know what to say so I didn’t say anything. I didn’t know what to do and I think that’s how most people are. They are waiting for you to make the first move or approach them b/c they don’t know what to do. At first I isolated myself but then I started talking to my friends (mostly b/c they thought I was dying b/c I lost so much weight so fast they could see my ribs). They were very supportive and it has strengthened my friendships. I agree with you that in a lot of ways a divorce is harder emotionally than a death b/c there is no closure. In a death, you hold on to the love you feel for them and take solace in the good memories. In an affair, the only memories you hold are bad and the love you feel turns to bitterness or hate or else you can’t cope. You can’t pine for someone forever. You are also amazed that this person you gave your heart to can be such a liar and so deceptive. It’s a bitter pill to swallow. But don’t lose faith. Not all people are like that and you have a great heart & a lot of love to give. Strengthen your friendships and be there for your friend. She will need you. You will all be in my prayers.
I am so sorry for your friend, you will be the best person you can be for your friend and believe me she understands your hardship more than you know, she is an understanding friend. Very hard to loose a child no matter what age they are we are reared to believe they will out live us, seems only fair. Your turmoil has gone on a long time and feeling guilty is a hard thing to get past to rebuild your life but I have faith in us all and we will all make it for some us it just takes a little longer than others but we all survive this. Bless you all.
Liz, Sandy, Marlene, Sue-I am lumping you all together b/c it seems that the last few things you have written have been so similar. I had dinner w/my husband last night and didn’t really want to talk about our issues but inevitably it ended up that way. He says he’s happy with the way things are and that it’s not that bad. He provides well for us (which he does) and he’s home everynight (which he is). He’s not leaving and he’s committed to our family (which he said a year ago when he was still involved). He also said that he’s not that mean to me (which he still is occasionally) and that he wasn’t that mean to me in the past. That made me very mad but I kept my temper under control. I reminded him of all the horrible things he said to me and the way he treated me & the kids (which I’m sure you’ve all experienced). He denied a lot of it but then said that my memory was probably better than his. He just doesn’t think it was that bad. I just don’t feel that he is really sorry for what he put me through. To him it wasn’t a big deal. For me it was pure hell. I lost 30 pounds in 3 months and I wasn’t overweight. I just feel that if he’s not truly sorry, then it won’t be a big deal to him to do it again either with her or with someone else. I think their relationship was a lot more emotional than physical which helps him justify it more. But I think emotional is a lot more damaging to a marriage. I know I’m not God and it’s not my job to convict him, but it still bothers me. I just don’t feel like he’s remorseful. I also think that now he’s content to just move forward and act like nothing happened and act like there’s nothing wrong. But if nothing was wrong, he wouldn’t have cheated to begin with. Before his affair, we grew apart. I realized it but he didn’t want to go to counseling or talk or anything. So I learned to cope. It wasn’t a bad marriage and eventually I was fine with it. He worked a lot but he gave us weekends. He took us places and we tagged along with him on business trips. Now he says the time he spent with us was his duty and he never liked it. He’d rather be riding motorcycles or doing what he wants. So where does that leave us. Maybe it’s just going to take some time. I am starting to believe that she’s out of the picture (don’t know if I’ll ever really believe it). I’m just a little discouraged over the lack of remorse and the unwillingness to seek counseling to fix what was wrong with our marriage b/f the affair. But if she does surface again, I’m strong enough to walk away. If she’s truly out of the picture, I guess we’ll see in time if he wants a life with me. I think a lot of these things just take time and a lot of patience. Good luck to you all and make sure that you are taking care of yourselves and your kids.
Dave, Can you give me more info on the marriagemax? Which program did you do? Do you think it has been worth it or do you think that counseling is better? Thanks & best of luck to you.
Shennie, Thinking of all of you. Just went through this with a very close friend (I think I wrote about it at the time). It think our losses can actually help us to support those around us better than we could have before. Just being there is a tremendous support.
For me……….’running away’ was not so helpful. I’m so on edge I’m snapping at the kids and we came home early because none of us could deal.
He says he wants to make this change and is serious about it, but his actions are very questionable. The thing is he doesn’t even realize it. I’m am so close to just walking. I told him I had a bit of a longer timeline, but now I’m wondering, what for? Is it real, or does it just prolong the hell I feel at this moment.
If he really cares about me and my feelings, how can he keep me hanging like this day after day? Will I ever take precedence? Or only when I’m in front of him? I just don’t know how much of what I’m feeing is based in reality and how much is my anxiety, hurt and pain coming to claim me.
I have to make it through today and tomorrow. I’m having serious second thoughts about New Year’s as well…….but then what do I tell the kids? Will I regret it? Am I being rash when I’ve worked so hard not to be for all these months?
I know I’m at the end. I just don’t want to screw it up when I feel like I’ve done the right things for me and the kids to this point. I just don’t know what the ‘right’ thing is at this point. I know he loves me, but that is not enough.
HELP!!!!
To Steve, (or anyone that this helps.)
I have been reading all of your letters including Steves and feel for everyone. I can relate to the pain you are in. I get
the sitting and keeping life going while your other half plays around with their new find. I was in a 17 year relationship(we have 2 teenagers)
with who I believed was my partner for life and friend. He left 3 mos ago for a woman(about same age) he met at work one month before. He said he loves her, does’nt love me anymore and moved in with her and her 2 children 2 days later.(I knew nothing of this until the day he left and their relationship is still going strong) What a shock. REALITY! There is no love there, that’s for sure. People don’t hurt the people they truly love. And history has a habit of repeating itself.
Not to burst anyones bubble but even if our cheating spouses were to return they would probably do it again since they got away with it this time, why not? Only we would be older and
less likely to be able to rebuild our lives. I, like Steve and everyone here would love to have our spouse return and be very very sorry, BUT…for how long. And, in my case I wonder
if I would take him back because it’s easier than restarting.
Tell me what you guys think! Seems also to me from reading and researching a little into this cheating spouse thing that
the person who is left to hold the fort is usually the stronger of the two in the first place. In short, in the long run I have to believe that holding the fort, keeping everything together so to speak will pay off in the long run and our cheating spouses will come to regret their decisions, although I’m sure for most they will already have grown past their love for them. It’s the law of KARMA. The strong are creating a positive KARMA whereas the cheaters, ( as wonderful as they may be in their own way) have made choices that hurt a lot of people therefore have a negative KARMA. Like attracts like!
JuneD,
I originally was thinking that I needed to do the Lone Ranger track. I suggested the program to my wife and she agreed to go into this together (the Duo Track). We decided to do the Home-Flex package. As far as whether this program is better than counseling, time will tell. From a holistic perspective and having only gone through 2 of 7 tele-seminars I would say, so far absolutely. I think that I totally get what this guy is saying. From a marketing point of view, one could look at this as yet one more “get fixed” thing that you can buy on the internet but somehow I think this one is different. His program could get into some money in that he charges for private sessions but that is totally up to you if you want to schedule them. If you have ever read Steven Covey, Mort’s message falls along those same lines – it’s not about what others think, how you feel, trying to fix someone else, having your partner meet your expectations, etc. – it’s about doing the right thing and taking responsibility for your own actions. He doesn’t promote taking blame, he simple says, change the only person in this world of billions that you can change – you. If your partner sees the difference and changes as well then great. If they don’t then you can move on with a clear conscience and know that your next relationship will be better. I am constantly grappling with how to do this and continuously think back to what she has done and what I need from her to feel comfortable in the future. I believe that we are on the exact same page JuneD in that my wife has shown very little remorse towards me and how this has devastated me. Mort’s approach is, don’t wait for the feelings to come, take action now and the feelings will return. My biggest issue is that I don’t think that my wife, a very surface person, either wants or has the where-with-all to do this but what this guy is saying is you can’t make someone else change, they have to do it on their own. The way I see it, every day I will get stronger and stronger and I will survive this. I hope that my wife will change and come back to me but I’ve come to the realization that I’m going to be fine either way – if she comes around and asks for my forgiveness great, if she or I decide that we should no longer be together then this will work as well in that I don’t want to be with someone that does not want me to be in their life. While this has been a rude awakening, I know that there are only two possible outcomes and feel comfortable with either one (there’s no doubt that one outcome will hurt more than the other but you live and learn – next time I am sure that I will be a much better judge of character).
Dave, thanks so much for the reply. I don’t think that my husband would be willing to try this. I told him 4 months ago that I was done (after I discovered a calling card) and he begged for yet another chance. I gave him 4 months (til Jan. 15) in order to get the kids through Christmas. He said that he would go to counseling, seminars, anything it took to fix our marriage. To date, nothing has changed. He said Sat. night that he will never go to counseling, etc. and that things between us are fine, never mind the fact that he continually criticizes me & the kids and is angry often and can’t stand doing anything family related (seeing Christmas lights, going to the kids’ soccer games, family movies, etc.) But I realize that I can’t make him change. I know the only one who can change is me and I have changed in a lot of ways. But in a lot of ways he has destroyed me, my innocence, my trust, my self esteem. I know I need to fix me and if that means I have to leave the one who continually breaks me then I need to be strong enought to leave. I think I may do the lone ranger course. btw.. You say that your wife is a very surface person but I think that you’ll find that that is true of most people who cheat. If they were deep, they would realize the pain they are causing others (spouse, children, extended families, even the OP) but they can’t see past themselves and the fun they are having. They are usually self-centered and unfortunately, that makes any changes almost impossible. But like you said, I can change me so that who I am going to focus on. Thanks for listening and I really wish you the best of life (with or without your wife).
Sue, any developments since New Years? I’ve been praying for you. I’m so sorry for the situation you’re in. It puts pits in your stomach and you feel like you have a knot in your throat that you just can’t swallow. But don’t let him take advantage of you. I’m sure he’d be content to have his cake & eat it too. And I’m sure he’d be fine with dragging this out. Please take care of you. When I was deep into this and knew she was in his life but couldn’t prove it, I read a book that really helped. It’s “Love Must Be Tough” by James Dobson. The book is about not being a doormat and refusing to enable them with their selfish desires. It was really hard to put into practice when all I wanted was to grab hold of his leg and beg him to stay but I did and started noticing change in us for the better. He became less angry and felt less trapped. Then when I got concrete proof of the OP I told him I was done. He apologized, blah, blah, blah, I naively bought it and he became deceptive which is his loss. But it was never in my face, and even though he has damaged my self esteem, I still have my dignity and my kids have a strong mother (at least around them) and I have some sense of control. As of September, he has given up the OP for good and if I find evidence to the contrary, then I’m done. I will not live my life forever on a roller coaster. I would rather sit on the park bench alone enjoying the scenery than on a horrific roller coaster with him. Unfortunately, the ride’s not completely over b/c we still need to fix the problems we had in our marriage b/f the affair and he is unwilling to do any of that. I’m not nagging him or begging him for any changes. I’m just going to fix me and if he doesn’t want to fix our marriage, then he doesn’t want it. And I deserve more and so do you and so does everyone else in the situation. Best of luck to you, but focus on you. Your kids will be fine, but they won’t be fine if you’re not fine.
JuneD……thanks so much.
Much has happened in the past few days. We ended up having a really nice time with our friends who were amazingly supportive while not in any way condoning his behavior. There were no elephants in the living room and that was so nice for all of us. I can’t believe I’m so lucky to have them.
After we left, however, the tables turned. It turns out that after a bad week he had assumed he’d be going ‘home’ after the party and told her to expect him. I blew. I couldn’t believe it……especially after having such a nice time. I threw him out while he was begging. Cried (sobbed really) myself to sleep and woke up crying some more.
Then I called him. I didn’t know what would happen, but I knew the kids were expecting him for New Year’s Day…play family games, dinner, etc. Somehow he talked me through it as much as he could all while crying. I told him he had me for ‘today’ but we’d see what happened when he got here.
When he finally showed up he called me from the car. Scared me actually. He was such an emotional mess I could barely understand him. I went down to him as neither of us wanted to scare the kids. In short, he had an emotional break down. He had gone home and told her they had to be through. It sounds like he was working in that direction, but we all know we can ‘work’ at it forever. At some point it just needs to be.
He apologized over and over to me. Something that really had not happened yet. I did feel badly for his intense pain, but even he was clear that he needs to go through it. He asked me if I would allow him to try to ‘fix’ it. Once he was relatively OK he went upstairs and did the same with the kids. They were great. They were happy that he finally was showing remorse and very supportive of how upset he was. He cried pretty much the whole way through dinner, etc.
We talked a lot after they went to bed. I know I could be wrong, but I truly believe we are on the road to recovery now. She is not gone yet, so I don’t want to get in front of myself, but this is very different than anywhere we’ve been yet.
I believe that by constantly giving the same message of limits (my limits) without ranting and raving, made the ranting and raving all that more impactful on New Year’s Eve. Either way, it’s nice to actually be taken seriously.
We are leaving no stone unturned. Send warm thoughts our way as I continue to send them to all of you as well. Getting to a place where you know you’ll be OK no matter what is the most empowering. I cried hard New Year’s Eve, but I knew I would stop and be strong sooner rather than later. I shocked myself with how I actually handled the day. Would not/could not have predicted it. I even told him that when I called in the morning I was still saying ‘no way in hell buddy’. I just knew, for the kids at that point, I needed to mend some sort of fence. I had no way of knowing that he would have taken it so much further. That was a really nice surprise.
So……day by day. We’ll see where it goes.
June D,
YES. I posted a few days ago that my 17 year relationship ended quickly with another woman waiting in the wings. You said you spouse always critisizes you and your kids and you feel he never does anything family related. Same as me. I felt like he was angry all the time but I really just got used to it. Now all of a sudden 3 months after he professed his love for the other woman and moved in with her and her children, he is suddenly helpful with the kids(GUILT), which he was not before.
I read something the other day that the cheating partner usually leaves due to not getting enough from the relationship, but actually it is quite the opposite, they find after research that the cheating partner did not GIVE enough to the relationship. That makes sense. My spouses main problem I found was that he did not appreciate us, his home. He always felt there was something more or better or whatever.
I have never felt such shame, pain and downright disgust for how a person can do this sort of thing to their families and wives/husbands. Do you think that the reason for infidelity is because the cheater is actually wanting out of the relationship but afraid to be alone so they get something else started up and still have their foot in the old door just in case. Are the partners waiting at home just safety nets? It really is an extremely selfish act on the cheater part. Pardon me for being hard on them but they don’t mind leaving us to suffer.(I know they seem remorseful but actions do speak louder than words.) I for one, have, after considerable pain, sleepless nights, worry about my kids, sadness, shock decided the only way to go here is to save myself. I am eating well, taking vitamins, reading, etc. Basically trying to rebuild my life without my mate. It’s not easy. Does anyone have any rebuilding tips?
To Sue – sounds like a really emotional time but I guess that the holidays do that too – I see many similarities in our situations so if you were to ask me what I think I would say hang in there a bit longer and stay hopeful – remember, you can always still walk out of this if you find him lying again or if you have just had enough – I too was calm – most of the time – and I had the same experience – the few times that I did rant and rave did seem to leave the most lasting impression on him – and it was really when I started to hold my ground and make him more accountable and tell him repeatedly that I couldn’t tolerate this triangle forever that he started to change his tune – this is a man who went from (in July) telling me that “she will always be in my life at some level (meaning as a “friend”) and if you don’t like it, you can file for divorce” to (in Aug) “what I did was wrong and I am sorry” to (Nov) “I realize now that no interaction that I ever have with this woman will be innocent in your eyes” and writing to her in an email “I wish you well, but I just can’t keep communicating with you and not telling my wife about it – I need to focus all my attention and energy into making my marriage work” Last night (too long of a story to go into) we talked to our 26 year old son about a problem he is having with his girlfriend – after I hung up I told my husband that I felt we should tell our son about what had happened with us – he was okay with that so we called him back and told him together – my husband told him that he had screwed up because he was screwed up at the time but that we are now doing what we should have been doing for years, which was really communicating and that he couldn’t imagine his life without me in it. There is the key for us, I think – although he didn’t like it at the time because it sounded “spiteful,” I told my husband during one of my ranting and raving times that he could indeed always have the OP in his life, in any way that he wanted – but then he simply could not have me in it, in any way – I also handed him my wedding ring – I told him that I was interested only in being his wife but not his friend and that if we split up over this, he could count on me to do him no harm but that there was no way that I would continue any relationship with him and would only remain civil, when I had to be, if it was something that concerned our son – he knows me well enough to know that I sincerely meant that – not in a mean or vindictive way – but because that would be the only way for me to deal – there was still a very unrealistic part of him that thought that this could all work out and that our marriage could continue to improve and be happy and he could at the same time continue to lend his support and friendship to the OP – don’t ask me how a man who is pretty smart can be so stupid sometimes – if you read “Not Just Friends” by Shirley Glass, you will see a lot of commentary on this type of thing – I swear that the words she uses when she describes what the cheating spouses say came many times verbatim out of my husband’s mouth! I know we would all like to push ourselves forward years and months so that this is way behind us and maybe none of us is where we would like to be yet – but as long as I could and can see progress in a positive direction, I didn’t give up – so take care of yourself, be sure that you are treating yourself and that he is treating you well and let us know how things go – we are all plugging for you!
Marlene,
Thanks for your kind words. They help more than you can imagine. Getting everyone’s point of view is so helpful when things are so confusing. I don’t feel as confused right now, but the nagging questions are still there.
It is amazing (I know we all keep saying this) how much the circumstances are the same. But the personalities do make each situation a bit different. I checked out marriagemax as well and am intrigued as I also believe there is a certain amount of ‘moving beyond’ that needs to happen.
The OP was our tenant (I guess in some ways still is..but I digress). Tonight my husband was going to paint the apartment for the new tenant. It made my stomach turn. I wanted to help as that is something I would have done in the past. I told him that is one place I will probably never step foot in again. At first he was surprised, but then, after a moment, said he understood. I said there are things I need to get over and things I just need to move beyond….the apartment is not something I need to get over. I can just not go and be OK that I don’t have to put myself through that. There is enough stuff to get over.
He will be getting a new cell phone as that is probably my biggest trigger. I feel so crazy that a phone makes me fall apart. But it represents so much of what I ‘knew’ was happening and could not have any control over. He has offered without me asking, so I feel grateful that he is trying to understand where I am at and help me in those ways.
I hope my feet are still on the ground tomorrow. I pray she truly leaves SOON. They both know I need that, but they need to be able to do it as well. I guess the positive is that all parties agree to no contact once it is done. I hope they can both stick to it. Ugh…..the cheesy novel is still writing chapters.
Again………thanks for the sharing. I am looking for it constantly to shore myself up.
Hi Everyone,
I am back from our trip and we had 2 good days and one bad, the affair came up and everything got heated again. The problem is we were staying at a place where he had taken the OP so you can imagine how awful it was for me with the fact that she had been there with him over the summer. He tells me that I wallow in self pity over this and I find it very unsympathetic. He says he’s sorry over and over and that he feels guilt, but I just don’t believe him. He tells me that holding onto anger does me no good. He thinks we both need to be the “best people that we can be” and that will help “us”. Any thoughts?? I feel so alone and frustrated. I feel like when I was without him (when he moved out of the house), there were parts of me that were happier, and stronger, even through all the turmoil. My therapist said that reality has “set in” for me now and I was in shock before. Has anyone else experienced more anger as time goes on? I thought it would be better by now but it seems to be getting worse and it is really keeping me stuck. I also cannot belive the OP has not tried to contact him since Septmeber, especially if she was so “in love” etc. I find it very odd but I have no proof. I might be more trusting if he told me of contact. It would be more realistic and believable since these things never seem to end “cold turkey”.
Marlene- don’t feel bad about a new cell phone making you uncomfortable. That would really set me back and make me wonder.I believe our spouses waived the right to blind trust and that they have to expect “triggers” are a part of the package of thier infidelity.My husband kept samples of hair products that the OP gave him (she works at a salon) in his bathroom. He thought I was ridicilous that it upset me so much. “it’s just hair gel” Yeah, that SHE gave him!!!! I think I was 100% right to think that way. They try to make you feel like an “over-reactor” and that’s where we can’t back down. I told him to get rid of it and if he didn’t, to leave. That simple. It’s a matter of respect.
Liz,
In reply to what you said about reality setting in your right. How long has it been since you found out about the op. I think we do at first go into shock at the idea that our partner has turned away from us and toward someone else. The shock is simply to soften the blow for us although I notice with me in particular after 3 months of him not living with me I am finally starting to (sort of) get past this. I had the time with him not here to go thru the disbelief and horror at how he treated me and the kids. Now reality has set in. My reactions are starting. Before I was afraid to speak and almost in self preserve, hiding from him and everything. Almost I guess you could say closing my eyes to everything. I think the only way to get over it is truly to face it, talk it out the way we are keep facing it until it’s gone. I think to sweep it under a rug so to speak would be just delaying everything. The anger, disappointment. Let’s face it, I’m sure I don’t only speak for myself when I say that I am truly disappointed with my partner. I thought he valued us more than this. I have decided thru some pondering that I am better off alone than with a person who does’nt appreciate me and their life while their with me. How long have you been in the relationship with your spouse. Me, it was 17 years.
Hi Everyone! I can relate to all of your emotions, when you are the injured spouse. I have lived through the lies, betrayals, unfaithfulness. It has been 3.5 years since the shocking news came about. The best payback for the offending spouse is to be happy, live a good life, do the things that you have always wanted to do. Most of all, deal with all your unmet childhood emotional needs. It is the best thing that has ever happened for me, and I am now taking a program to help other men and women who are in the same situation as you and I. I feel so much better about myself now, I want to give you all hope that there is light at the end of the tunnel. God brings you to it, He will bring through it. Today, I a much stronger woman and make decisions based on faith not fear. God bless your marriages and your lives.
Joan – it has been since May 16th to be exact when I found out about the OP. Then he continued to lie and still see her and claims it ended for good in September (do I believe him? not really, but that’s a trust issue from being continually lied to over and over). We have been together (dating) for 7 years and married for 10, so very similar to you. Is your spouse out of the house still? Are you getting a divorce and is he with the OP still? I, also, could not believe he lied to me and treated me and the kids that horrible. And it’s sad when they tell you they are sorry, it has very little meaning or effect. My kids are little and don’t know anything about the OP. My biggest fear is she would be involved in my kid’s life if we were to divorce. I know that is not any reason to stay with him, that it’s out of my control, etc. I think I am doing this for my kids because I’ve read too much on the effects of divorce on children. It’s so hard to make a decision without feeling guilt, even though I feel justified for myself.
Ruby – is the offending spouse better off to this day??? How has their life compared to yours? Thanks for the great support and insight.
Sue, Sorry for what you’re going through but glad that he was sorry. Unfortunately, I think you are still on a roller coaster. I heard someone say on a talk radio station that when they were in the affair it was like being on a drug. The euphoria of the affair was so intense and when it ended, they were so miserable. I don’t believe that they are thinking rationally. How could they? Most people have far too much to lose. My husband (who never shows emotion) broke down and wept when I confronted him in February and told him I was filing for divorce and showed him my evidence. He immediately fired her and apologized to all those he had been lying to. I believe he was sorry. But within a few weeks he was back in contact. Took me a while to figure it out. I think he realizes now that she’s not worth it, but I think it was really hard for him. He had a strong emotional connection to her and missed her greatly. I think he still does. And I still get very angry when I’m reminded of her. I did throw him out for a week in April but believed again when he swore he was done. He called her in September with me there and broke it off. Again, I believed him. Hopefully he hasn’t re-engaged. I guess we’ll see. Be patient but be firm and decide a game plan ahead of time. What are you going to do if he contacts her again? I truly hope he won’t but affairs are an addiction. Be strong and take care of you and don’t expect to heal immediately. It all takes time. Best of luck!
Joan, really sorry for you and your kids. I wish I had some great advice. But I don’t. I think it just takes time. Yes, they are very selfish. They are only thinking of themselves, what about their wife, their kids? They are affecting so many lives, but it doesn’t matter. And at this point though, now you know what he is really like. And I think I have a hard time with that now myself. Even though my husband has chosen to leave the OP, will I ever trust him and do I really want to spend the rest of my life with someone who is so obviously so self-centered that he would lie to me and to her, to our kids and his business partners (she was their employee)? What does that say about him? Don’t feel shame and try not to feel loss. He doesn’t deserve you. You deserve much better. Make new friends, maybe start a bunco group. I went to a friend’s bunco group a few times and met a lot of new people. Do things with your kids and if you have a church, join a group or else check locally and see if there are any book clubs. Hope things go better for you.
Yes. He is still out of the house. The day I found out(3 months ago) I asked him to leave instantly in hopes that he would come to his senses but instead he moved immediately in with her. He had been seeing her short term but he says he fell in love with her instantly when he met her as a client at work. Unfortunately for her, she has 2 kids(young teens), but has no idea of his short patience with kids. She is involved in my kids lives, he immediately pushed her on them. Kids don’t appreciate that so you will see that it will not be you that will fight that, the kids do. At any age. Unfortunately. For me, living alone has been very hard, but I don’t think I could take for one minute living with him and feeling unsure. (although sometimes it would be better than this.) I guess the big question that we should ask ourselves is if we deserve more. He was quite mean to me the last month he was here because he had met her, I could tell almost to the day, because he started treating me differently, attacking me for everything suddenly. The house was disorganized(it’s not), the kids were rude(they can be), I was looking a little older(I do), I was on eggshells but very much did not accept that I was. I was defiant right to the last minute. I just can
t let myself be treated that way. It really bugged me. It is as usual, the grass greener on the other side thing. I like to think that in the long run if we are true to OURSELVES and our children, we will come out the winners because we did the right thing. By the way, they treated us horribly because they wanted us to respond by acting like lunatics. When we do, they can say, HA, thats why I did this to her. It excuses them. I tried not reacting to anything he did. Not long after he left he would come to my home and rant and rave about almost anything. For a bit, I would respond with rage also. Then, I pulled back. When I did he now had to be personally responsible for his choices, This really worked for me because I was no longer giving him reasons and I felt a sense of peace and control, alas. Being true to yourself, at any cost, is the key. There is always a chance that my X will return, but, really, I would have a very hard time with ever believing him again, and more importantly trusting him to be there for me at all times. Even the tough ones. My ego took a huge hit, but I am trying to rebuild it. As for you LIZ, I think you should give it your best shot, with a timeline on it. If you don’t feel that things have been resolved, make a new plan. I heard a saying the other day, Kids Bounce, adult go splat! Your happiness it the utmost of importance to you and your children. WHATEVER it take to be happy yourself, Just do it. It will work out.
LIZ,
That last reply was for you.
JuneD,
Thanks. What’s a bunco group. I’m canadian. I’ve never heard of that
Liz, I read a book on infidelity and it said that it usually takes the offended spouse about the same amount to get over the affair as it did for the cheating spouse to be in the affair and that the general time frame is 1 to 2 years. I believe that b/c originally my husband’s affair was from May,2005 (I figured it out June, 2005) and got proof at end of July, 2005. Confronted him and he broke it off. That was 3 months. He went undercover big time. By December, I finally started trusting him and let it go. He was acting fine, dedicted to me and the kids, occasionally he had an attitude, but I think he had finally figured out how to reconcile his two worlds. I was greatly fooled. Now, he has had his affair for 1 & 1/2 years (5/06-9/07) and I’m sure it’s going to take me a long, long time to get past that. I think the longer an affair goes on, the more lies they tell and the more trust is destroyed. But don’t share those feelings with him. It won’t help. He wants to move forward and I’m sure you do too. You can vent to us anytime. We all understand. He never will b/c he hasn’t walked a mile in your shoes. Also, maybe vent in a journal and to a counselor if you have one. Maybe you can set up a time once a week to talk. I know it’s hard b/c everyday something happens regarding her and I just want to blast him. I know if the shoe were on the other foot, he would have kicked me out. It takes a lot of patience and a lot of time.
Joan – First of all, the comment you were looking a little older, is totally “superficial” and mean. My husband told me I “used to have pretty hands” and that he loved how I “used to do my hair, etc”. And you know what, I think they say this to bring us down. It builds them up. It’s mean and we deserve better. My house also is organized and he’s a “neat freak”. He always complains about it and other people tell me it always looks nice. So I don’t allow him to get to me anymore. I honestly think it’s a form of verbal abuse. When I first discovered his affair, I asked him to leave also and he moved in with her. That was horrible for me and I couldn’t sleep or eat for weeks. All I could think about was our kids, and divorce, and how innocent they are in all of this. My anger for him was scary. I never thought I could feel that much anger toward anyone. I was stupid to think he would actually get his own apartment, etc. But moving in with her just made it worse and the affair more “real”. My husband also was textbook, he acted very mean to me and the kids before, and during the affair…and now looking back, it was out of pure guilt. His affair lasted 6 months and we have only been attempting to reconcile for 3 months. I keep telling him that it lasted longer than I am trying to heal! He has no patience anymore and tonight, as a matter of fact, we got into an argument about it once again. He told me that I will never believe him anyway, that my thoughts are more important than his and that I will never trust him, etc. He doesn’t get that it has to be EARNED. I honestly think that if he had ended the affair, the first time, I’d be much better off. It’s the fact I was fooled by him twice that really, really messed with my trust. I am starting to think being alone will be better. I won’t have to wonder if he’s doing something behind my back.
June – thank you. I also read how addictive affairs are too. Is it because the OP builds them up and boosts their confidence, etc? Also, it’s so hard to know if they are being defensive out of guilt, or if they are still in contact. He still refuses to go to counseling and to apologize to my parents, and tell his the truth. These are big issues to me and I think I need to set a deadline or I’ll never be at peace with this. Also, I’ve thought about a separation, and not a divorce, but I am afraid that will just lead him right back to the OP. Any thoughts?
LIZ,
I’m curious, after 6 months his affair was over? Why? Which of the two ended it? And why is he still being impatient with you? This must be very difficult seeing that it has gone on for so long. Take care of yourself first. There’s only one you.
WOW again!! Are you all living my life in different time zones? I pray that I don’t have to be deceived again. We are talking about that very fact daily. He is still with her for that reason. I don’t know what to do.
Right now I read and hear about the addictive nature and need to go ‘cold turkey’….and all the justifications.
But I do believe what is happening. Our lives have change immensely for the better despite my (and his) current turmoil…..those lessons will last. He told her it is over and is (as he says) committed to ending it so that there are not the relapses. I have been oh so clear in my feelings about all this…….I wish this to be true, but from what I know it just needs to end and then deal with the pain. He has heard me for sure. Still in turmoil.
Is it possible to feel a little different? Or am I kidding myself? The honesty is brutal, but so good. And never in a mean way. It’s hard to explain here. I am on edge, as is he, but also so firmly planted in equal time. I feel as though we are using so many of the tactics we have read about on line all at the same time…..however it fits best for us.
Yes, I know I could end up without him. But I do believe it would be better than with him if that is what either of us want. I can not believe this is a bad thing. Therefore I am forging on. Through the current muck of the OP.
I told him tonight (in a moment of intense insight) that I am dealing with so much pain that I am looking for the moment to moment, day to day, kind of reassurance and honesty. He responded that what I said made total sense to him but that he is looking at spending the next 40+ years with me and working to do everything possible to never question that again. I know this could sound like a bunch of bunk, but I know he believes it.
I decided at that moment to melt in one sense, but to tell him in the other that the day to day of what is happening is damaging and effects the possiblity of the future. I will not waiver on the fact that there needs to be a real end soon.
Am I pushing too hard???? I believe the line of wanting it to be for good. We both believe the pain of the future and are not at all shy about talking about that. He is actually better than I am about protecting me (go figure)….that probably deserves a better explanation, but trust me on that one.
This affair is now 7 months long and I’ve known for 4 months. He moved out within two weeks of me finding out…per my request. Maybe he is too good at this (although I don’t think so). Maybe I am not as strong as I think. (maybe) I just believe we have always had so much. We got lost and he REALLY got lost. We are not begging. We are not saying things just to make the other one feel good. We have worked out some pretty major stuff in the meantime. How could this be bad? Ahhh…..I know…….I don’t know yet. Just still hoping I am not misreading and loving the honesty in the meantime. Hating the life. This will change soon…one way or the other. And as a good friend said in the beginning….”It will end and it will be better in the end. It has to be.”
Wise words that have given me much solace.
Liz, I wish I had some answers for you. Heck, I wish I had answers for me. The truth is we don’t have a crystal ball so we don’t know what the future holds. I tend to be a more cautious person and I think that’s good but in some ways it’s not. It makes me anxious. What do I do? Should I be patient? Give him time to get her out of his system? I’m sure he misses her though he refuses to talk about her, says he doesn’t want to think about her that he’s trying to move forward with me. Do I want to spend the rest of my life with him? What is best for the kids? Would I find someone else who will treat me great and want to do things with the kids? Will my husband one day wake up and realize what he has and make changes to show that? So many questions, but the answers are elusive. And I think that I’m afraid of making the wrong decision and then having to live with that for the rest of my life. But I have lived with this for 1 & 1/2 years & done everything I could to change his mind and fix me & our marriage. There’s nothing else I could have done and if it is over, well then I can live with that. But I don’t want to make that decision (unless I found proof again that she’s still in the picture). I wish that he would make up his mind. Why doesn’t he? He could have left at any time but he chose to stay and yet he acts like it’s a huge burden. No one is making him stay. I already told him that I would be very reasonable about the money & the child visits (unless she is in their life). He says he doesn’t want to marry her and I believe that. She has a lot of issues and complications in her life that he doesn’t want to take up. He just wants the fantasy. And I think he misses the fantasy so he is unhappy with us because how can reality (no matter how great) ever compete with fantasy? It can’t. I can only hope that he grows up quickly and realizes that you can’t live in a fantasy world. It doesn’t exist. I would say to you that you need to be patient and set up boundaries. What behavior will you tolerate? If he starts being mean, calmly remove yourself from the situation. I’ve been trying that, though it’s easier said than done. They do throw tantrums when they don’t get their way but too bad. I’m not going to be continually abused verbally b/c he’s unhappy nor are my kids. And what’s the point of staying married to him if he is going to make my life and my kids’ lives miserable? It is a long road. I just hope the destination is worth it. Have faith that you and your kids will ok with or without him and take steps now to ensure that. Best of luck!
Joan, A bunco group (I’ve only been twice) is a group of 12 women. You split up into 3 different groups of 4. You roll dice and the losing team (2 of the 4) moves to another table and switches partners. Basically it’s completely mindless and you constantly switch tables and partners and you get to talk to new women in a small group. It’s a lot of fun. My friend’s group meets once a month. There are regulars but if someone can’t make it then they have substitues which is what I’ve been. That way you constantly meet new women. And we also eat before. Just another way to get out there and meet others. A lot better than sitting at home thinking about everything that’s going on. btw… thanks for advise. So much of what you and everyone writes really applies to me. It was very interesting what you said about them criticizing you until you snap. About a month & 1/2 ago, we got into a disagreement regarding her. He got very mad and stewed all day. That night he started verbally attacking me and calling me names. I finally snapped and threw my ring at him and said things I never do. After that he was in a great mood and said, see I knew you were a psycho. Basically he won, because he made me lose control and I let him. I learned that lesson. I haven’t given him the upper hand since. I have gotten mad and I have told him what I think, but I don’t lose control. I can’t afford to. Why does that make them feel better? I think they need to do that to lessen their guilt or try to justify their actions. Poor me, that’s why I cheated b/c my wife’s a psycho or a nag, or whatever. My husband also complains if the house or the kids aren’t perfect, but none of it is that bad. Yet I’ll overhear him tell someone that he’s got a great wife and kids and a great life. Why can’t he tell me that? Not sure if it’s just a lot of pride. But he’s definitely not acting like he was last summer. I knew he was still involved with her. You can’t go through life treated disrespectfully. I’m sorry your husband did that to you. You don’t deserve that. You deserve so much better. It won’t be long until he does the same thing to her. Reality will set in soon for them and then they will get what they deserve. But stay strong and get out there. Meet new friends and get involved in an activity. You have a lot to offer others and I wish you all the best.