Learn from these real life extramarital affair coaching scenarios.
In the first section the person struggling with the marital infidelity summarizes the scenario or concern and what he/she would like to say to his/her cheating spouse.
I then outline some goals that help him/her break free from the affair.
The last and important section gets at shifting the focus away from the spouse/partner to him/her self. In other words, what does all this mean for the person on the receiving end of an extramarital affair? After that mental shift (which is NOT easy for someone in the pain and turmoil of perhaps losing one’s spouse, family, and home) I, the coach, offer phrases that he/she can relay to his/her spouse in a way that speaks directly of his/her concern and has the best chance of being heard and getting positive results.
Section 1: The “offended spouse” says:
I used to focus on what mood is he in, is he going to talk to me today, is he going to look/act like he’d rather be anywhere else with anyone else other than me. This habit/pattern is hard to break, but I’m working on it. I was so hurt and rejected that sometimes in my depression that I didn’t leave the house for days. All this in an attempt to figure out how to be okay with my life and how lonely I was. This was his excuse for his affair (“if you thought it was bad being that way, you have no idea how hard it is to live with a person like that” – thoughtful words from him after I learned of his affair). I’ve been figuring out “what makes me happy” as friends refer to it, but that seems selfish and that’s just not me. I’m learning how much living like that has affected the simplist of things – mood, attitude, communication and my relationship with our 13 yr old daughter. I wrestled with deciding whether or not to stay in my marriage and even though we’re still living together, I was non-committal and that hasn’t helped things much. But lately, I’ve been getting more clarification. I still don’t have all the answers as for our marriage, but I do know that I’m doing what I’m called to do right now. He has been making changes although I’ve been frustrated that they’re not the ones I think he should be doing. I realized that he’s trying and doing the best he can and I’ve not acknowledged the changes that he has made and that tears down the very thing that I said that I wanted. Regardless of where this leads, I’m ready to move forward with my life. He has an opportunity to rise higher in his life and our relationship and if he’s unable, I can accept that, but I know with all my heart that I need more than that and I love him enough to let him go. Otherwise, it’ll continue to tear us down as individuals and as a couple. That to me would be unforgivable – to intentionally choose that. I’ve finally forgiven him and I’m excited to be able to share that with him when I see him (he’s working 4 hrs away for a couple of weeks). I believe it’s a gift that both of us need and it’s necessary for healing regardless of whether we stay together or not. In addition to asking him to forgive me for where I fell short in our relationship, I’ve finally forgiven myself. The reality is that he made some wrong decision(s), but as painful as all of this has been (this was his second affair), I’m grateful for the opportunities that it’s opened in my heart. There’s great power in “pressing on” and getting through. I’ll even go as far as to say that I’m starting to determine my call and purpose in life. I don’t have the specifics yet, but I know that my past experiences were not given to me just to keep them inside and hide them away (survival of growing up in physical, emotional and verbal abuse, death of my child at age 7, two abusive ex husbands, battling depression, etc). I believe they can help others too. I’ve always believed that, I just lost sight of it. I’m excited to see how all of this unfolds. Well, I know you didn’t ask for a book, but I’ve never been one short on words.
Section 2: Personal goals suggested by the coach:
- Welcome your sensitivity. Learn ways to use it, especially with others.
- Examine, reflect, write down the “themes?? of your life that you are internally addressing when “depressed.??
- Congratulate your self on your tremendous growth and progress.
- Be very specific on the changes you want from him.
- List 5 factors that “hold you back?? from him.
- List 6 of your greatest personal needs. (Check out the needless program on my site)
- Continue working hard on defining your life’s purpose.
Section 3: What the affair means for the “offended spouse” and what he/she REALLY wants to say to his spouse/partner having the affair:
- I’m working hard on me, and boy, does that feel good. Also very exciting. But, I’m not sure, sometimes, where that leaves me with you.
- I want for us to have a richer relationship but it seems there has been so much pain and hurt, on both of our parts, that I wonder, what that means for our future.
- I have some very specific needs that I would like you to meet. But, I know this can be very tricky and rather scary. For example, I would like ____________. If you can do that, great. If not, help me understand what gets in the way. Maybe just give it some thought first, and we can get at it later.
What is your situation? Describe your situation. Let it flow. Don’t hold back. Then, ask yourself, “What does this marital mean for ME?” What impact does his/her extramarital affair have on my feelings, thoughts and actions? Then rehearse approaching your spouse/partner with phrases that convey the meaning and impact of the infidelity for YOU.
Hi Liz – no they don’t get it – I am not surprised by his reaction but I know that you are disappointed with it and understandably so – now if this were my H, and it could easily be, he would also be saying that he would not make the call with me there because it would be rubbing the OP’s nose in the fact that he chose his marriage over her, that he would feel like “mommy” (in other words, me) is making him do something,yada, yada – perhaps a continuing attempt to protect her – what is really going on? maybe your H is afraid – afraid of how she will react (will she go nuts and then you get to see this “wonderful” person who was so great that he cheated on you with her act like a maniac?)- maybe your H is afraid of what she will say with you there to hear it – maybe he doesn’t like being reminded of the monster he created and feels like he has “fixed it” as well as he could and that it isn’t his fault that she did what she did – I had these conversations with my H this summer when he finally started to pull away from the OP – I was able to confiscate an email she wrote in late July and I confronted him with it and told him that it showed me very clearly that 1) this woman doesn’t GET IT and that 2) she really DOES NOT WANT to be his “friend” – there was all this utter nonsense about his being the only thing in her life that made her happy, etc. – I told my H that any friend that either of us has also needs to be a friend of our marriage (not necessarily our personal friend too, but a friend of the marriage) and this woman could clearly never play that role – she would always be “taking” him away at some level from our marriage and she wanted that – so – maybe you and your H can talk again and maybe compromise – you can certainly tell him that you know he cannot be responsible for what she does and that he cannot control her – your issue is that you don’t know what message he is giving to her – how clear is it, is he being “nice” because he doesn’t want to be cruel and therefore inadvertently leading her on? – I talked a lot to my H about “how women think” and that seemed to help him see that he needed to be clearer even if he felt like a villain – last ditch effort? ask him to even try to imagine for a nanosecond what this would be like if the tables were turned – how would he feel? what would he need to feel supported? I have read and heard a lot about asking the spouse to talk to the OP with you there so you can hear what they say so I don’t think your request is at all unreasonable – I empathize with you though because I can envision my H balking as well and I don’t think you should equate it with his not caring – the weird thing about my situation is that he told me that he would show me the email he sent to her to tell her that he needed to cut off all contact – when he came home that day from work and told me he had sent it and how she responded by showing up at his school, etc., he did not offer to show me the email and I didn’t ask – but he did make a hardcopy of it and left it in his briefcase where I saw it – I sometimes feel as if he gave me some credit for not asking him and believing that he really did say what he said he did – and he did because he wrote exactly what I would have hoped he wrote – and mind you I have not completely ruled out that it could be a hoax and a cover up – if she comes out of the woodwork like your H’s OP did I would be upset as you are but would try hard not to blame him and keep talking about what I needed – your H wants to move forward, sure, so do you – but each of you has the right to communicate with the other what you need to do that – hope your therapist can help!
Marlene…..wise words. Hard to give ourselves credit for what we want and believe they are trying as well. It’s all OK on some level, but to integrate those thoughts and feelings can be very difficult at best. I am trying to do as you say….it makes sense to me as well. When I can pull it off, honestly, it has rewards. We are just so far in the muck of it that it is even harder to make it work. But we are both trying and I have to believe that counts for a lot……not just something, but a lot.
Liz and Jessi…..hang in there. You both seem to be on a good path on the whole but the day to day is a trip. I think that is symptomatic of the whole situation. If we all can keep sight of ourselves in the process we will end up in the process where we need to be.
Soooo looking forward to counseling on Thursday!
keep writing…..i’m reading……..
Hi all, I too am reading. Just haven’t posted. Been in a funk as of late so even writing hasn’t relieved any of my anxiety. Went to my doctor and he gave me an antidepressant, xanax and a medication for my stomach as I now have an ulcer to top it all off! Things have been quiet here. Trying not to talk about the affair too much. Our counselor wants us to limit talk about it to once a week plus our session with him. He is trying to get us to focus on us and not the affair anymore. He says that my H says it’s over and I either need to believe him and focus on our relationship and make it stronger or get stuck in a place that could end the marriage by reliving it daily and push him further away. He also told my H that if he is lying and still having contact with the OP, it will end my marriage. He needed to be clear about that. Anyway, we go to counseling on Thurs. Then he is leaving for a business trip til Friday evening. I read all your posts and wish I could respond, just am having a hard time writing these days. Still reading though. Take care, MS
Hi Everyone – Marlene, that was a great post! He told me on the phone that he wants to let “sleeping dogs lie”. which says to me that he is afraid of her reaction! Or, like you said, she will get mad and say way more on the phone than he bargained for! I agree 100%. I also know that if it was me who had the affair, to the extent that he did…he would be GONE! I have no doubt of this, because I told him, “you know, I could have as easily had an affair as you did, etc.” and he yelled, “what’s your point!!”..ha! Think he can’t bear to hear that…so that’s why I don’t think he can put himself in my shoes, becuase his tolerance for this would have died at this point (if it were me, of course!)
I also think she called because it is the anniversary of when they started talking and hanging out and a part of her cannot believe he hasn’t caved and called her.
I also think he wants her to just “go away” and have no confrontation with her becuase #1 he hasn’t told his family the whole truth! and #2, she looks needy and like a stalker now, and it blows his image of her that he was trying to portray to me! It makes him look like a fool for picking someone like her. Then again, who dates married people? Mainly insecure ones if you ask me.
Sue – good luck and let us know how counseling goes!
Liz – exactly! once the OP starts to resemble Glenn Close in “Fatal Attraction” the H realizes how stupid he is going to look for latching onto someone like that – my H did exactly what yours did – I had to hear how wonderful she was from him and how life had dealt her such tough blows – and had to read that he wrote to her that she was the nicest person he had ever met – it’s all a big mirror – if the OP’s were so fabulous and loved our H’s enough to have an affair, even though they were married to us, “just couldn’t help themselves, etc” doesn’t that mean our H’s must be some kinda wonderful guys? but when the OP starts acting not so wonderful, what reflection does that have on our H’s? she said stuff I would never in a million years say to anyone and before that she was pathetic and begging – one thing my H said that meant a lot to me was that he has always respected me a great deal and although he felt lousy about himself because of what he had done and all the pain he caused, he guesses that if I still am willing to love him, maybe he’s not such a bad guy – mirrors again – MS – I think what your therapist said was great – although our doubts will always haunt us there comes a time that in the absence of evidence we have to start believing – I love what he said to your H aboutlying – I too have been on an antidepressant since April – I have xanax and intially took that pretty regularly but stopped a few months ago – and I too had some stomach issues that sent me to the doctor (not an ulcer) – I will tell you that when I came home and told my H that the doctor said it was most likely stress, that made him stop and think – there has to be a balance, though – our H’s cannot go on feeling so terrible about themselves for what they did that they cannot love and be loved – but they cannot forgive themselves too easily so that they ignore the pain they caused
Hi all … MS my therapist said something similar when I asked her how I should handle the cell phone bill. I had already said to my h that I know there are calls on it that you don’t want me to see because you can’t show it to me and hope you don’t have to hide the next one, therefore I had already acknowledged that I know so there is no point in draging up the past as that has already happened. Just focus on the future. He knew I was having a bad day as he mentioned it before he left for work… all I said was that it was a time thing and I am working through it. He was very different when he got home from work very affectionate, I got the feeling that he was trying to reasure me in his own way. I didn’t mention the phone bill and we had a pleasant evening. My therapist said that it would be confronting enough for him to look at the bill and see the evidence of all the lies he has told me and now that we seem to be making some positive steps it would make it even worse for him. To say anything might undo all the steps forward at this stage. I asked her why is it that he is the one that had the affair and I am the one that has to walk on eggshells so as not to upset the apple cart. Her response was that is generally how it is and reading all the posts here is sounds like that is so. That is because we are all so further ahead than they are. If I was the one that was having the affair I would be finding it harder and harder to leave when my partner is being so supportive and forgiving, I would be looking at them and wondering what possessed me to do such a thing to hurt them so much.
Yesterday I could have walked away but today I feel different
Gosh, we all seem to be in the same boat of asking ourselves, “how much of this can we take, etc?” it’s so hard!!
Marlene – I think he’s totally embarrassed that the OP called and it makes him look like a fool for getting hooked up with her. I just can’t help but think she’s going to start following him like Glen Close.
Jessi – I hate the eggshell feeling. The therapist would always say, “watch your timing on when to bring up the OP and the affair” and I would think “my timing? like I need to be sure it’s A-OK to talk about the pain and lies at the APPROPRIATE time?? When did he consider MY TIMING when he was with her for 6 months and left me and the kids to fend for ourselves?? UGH. Was he considering that he was using bad TIMING?Why do they get to be pampered emotionally? I still don’t get that. I guess it’s all part of this chaos.
At least the last 2 days have been good for us. I’ve been trying to FOCUS…It’s a day-to-day thing and will be for a very long time.
Sue, how did this week go???
Liz,
I recently found these boards and am jumping in here from Infidelity Quickie #5. I have read all the posts here and I am loving the support and understanding you all have for each other.
I totally get what what you are saying about being advised about “right timing”! At my insistence, and as a condition of staying married to my H after accidental discovery of his lies and infidelities, he started therapy on his own to help him sort through and “own” his stuff. I instinctively felt that there was “us” without him taking responsibility for what was “his” without blurring the lines with what was “mine”. To make a long story short, after a few sessions with his therapist, I was called in to, no doubt, help his therapist flesh out the whole story. Made sense to me and was fully expecting it. Yet, what happened after I got there was not expected! After an hour of sharing I told him that I was nearing the end of my rope and was contemplating a divorce. He said, “You can’t do that. It would devastate your H.” Say what?? What about me? I continued to support my H’s visits with the guy, but made it clear I saw no need for me to go again since he seemed his advocate. I then reached a point were I thought it was necessary for me to find a therapist of my own. My H shared that with his therapist and his answer was…?? “I don’t think it’s a good idea to have dueling therapists?” Dang! (now mind you I am relying my H’s version of what was said. It may or may not be true) I am very careful now to be sure that I am not further “victimized” by choosing “helping” professionals who do not take my needs in to account. Know what I mean?
Nicki!
Wow. Great advice! I can relate to you! To make a long story semi-short..ha!
My husband started seeing a therapist first when I first discovered his affair and I filed for divorce. Then we BOTH saw her together during couple’s therapy. THEN…. I used her for individual therapy for MYSELF. I think it was good and bad. The bad part is she knew him BEFORE she knew me and he came off like this great guy who just “slipped and was impulsive and had an affair.. etc”. (He can be very charming and manipulative) I think he’s a total narcissist now (after reading about narcissism, I almost died… he fits so many of the traits, ei:lack of empathy, verbal abuse, lack of sense of humor, poor “gift giver”, belittles own children to make himself look better, highly critical of others, perfectionist in his or her work..need I go on?) BUT he’s very charming! And that’s why I feel for him and married him years ago. But…the therapist only knows HIS side of what he reveals to her! His best side! UGH. I think I need a new therapist who does not know my husband, and only works with me. your thoughts?
Liz,
My humble opinion is that if you aren’t sure if the therapist is totally impartial, then I see nothing wrong with you finding your own therapist. I am all about getting the answers I need and being 100% supported while I do so. Before the affairs it was always about H. NO MORE. It’s all about me now! And, if talking to someone who doesn’t know my H gives me a perspective I wouldn’t have gotten otherwise (of me and/or him) then I am going for it. Oddly enough, the offending spouse creates the wound, but it we are totally responsible for our own healing.
And I am laughing at your comments about narcissism. In my quest for “logical explantations” *I also looked for mental illness issues and confirmed to be horror that he fits the description to a “T”. (except he doesn’t rage. He sulks) It is unbelievable how clear it is now! My H is a classic, charming, bs peddler :-) It is easy for them to make us seem we are the crazy ones, isn’t it?
HI all. THis week has been good so far…who knows why?! I’ve been confident and focused on me and, believe it or not, happy. OK…..three days of it….but that feels good. He can’t seem to spend enough time here. Counseling for both of us..individual….tomorrow and couples on Friday.
My h is on his 5th counselor……and really should be. The others were awful. THis one finally seems to be a match. And, if truth be told by him, she seems to be clear and objective about me as well….mirroring back to him behaviors, reactions and feelings. All good.
I do believe you need someone on your own who is not connected to the rest. I’ve had a couple of flops as well, but love this new one. As I said last week, she is direct and empathic…bright as well……nice combo.
My h’s biggest problem is probably that we (the kids and I) aren’t buying any of the BS…..and we tell him every time. It is getting rare now, but that leaves him a bit lost. Always surprised that we can take the truth better than the BS. He always thought (and still sometimes thinks) that he was protecting us. Read……control. Of course, he didn’t see it that way. But the two counselors are beginning to get that through to him. It has helped a lot so far. Mind you……I have my own control issues and this is a tough one. But we are doing well with it despite the current living arrangement.
On which note……I am actually doing OK doing nothing this week……so far. It is a new feeling to just let things ‘be’ for the moment. I went to yoga this am for the first time in a year. It all feels so much better.
You will all know the moment the house of cards falls……tonight, tomorrow, or next week. It will fall. But hopefully I’ll be able to rebuild farely quickly…….all part of the growth.
Thanks for all the comments….keep them coming. They account for a lot of why I have been OK these past three days.
Liz I am working with my own therapist so we can deal with my issues and focus on how I am feeling. He has seen someone twice and only once on his own. When we went together and the therapist heard where I was comming from he seemed to have so much empathy for my situation as the last 12 years I was looking after an ill dementing mother as well as everything else that was going on in my life. His comment to me was that I sure had to spread myself thin without much support. I don’t think this was what my h wanted to hear and this together with a few other things that were said might be why I can’t get him to go back to counceling. Don’t think he got the result he wanted!!! Anyway, much better to work on yourself and let the marriage take care of itself… if it doesn’t work out at least you are well on the way to healing yourself and don’t need anyone else to heal you which is very empowering. Just think how weak the OP is… she needs to make demands on your h because she is not a whole person in herself. How much more attractive are you now not only to your h but to anyone else!!! Self asured, no baggage, know how to handle yourself when you get anxious, can stand tall and proud, respect the value of marriage and family. To me that sounds a better propostion than a nagging OP that is trying to pull you away from your family and everything that you have built up togetther. Besides if you do decide to walk away that will make his loss even greater because he will also loose this awsome person you have grown into.
Find a good therapist that you feel comfortable and work on you, you are the most important person in your life and the only one you can trust. The last two weeks have been so different here. I have had one or two bad days but all of a sudden he is faced with this person who is (appering) enjoying life and finding so many things to look forward to.( Some times I have to fake it not going to let him see when I am not that great) Sometimes I think he is is wondering if I am going to stay, seems to be a lot more attentive getting home from work earlier and letting me know where he is when running a bit late.
My therapist said it is a bit like Skinner’s rats (rat being an appropriate comparrison) Now I have to train him to be like I want him to be and give a reward for nearly getting it right. Things like saying ” I really appreciate the way you are (whatever) and I am working on dealing with things, I still tend to get anxious when eg you get home late on Wednesday nights because that is when you would meet her after work but I am developing ways to get over that.” Tried it last week and on Weds he rushed home to catch me before I left for work. So it is my game now!!! Worth a try.
I find these bloggs a great way to clear my head and it is so helpful to see that what is going on here is the same for others, ie the eggshells. I thought it was just him but it appers to be a result of his behavior and is the same way others who have had affairs behave. It also means that I don’t have to spend so much time talking to friends about things that they really cannot understand so can’t give any constructive help.
Liz I know how you feel about the Glenn Close thing.. I feel the same, I think the OP is a weak character, after all if she had any confidence in herself she wouldn’t have let someone dangle her on a string for over 2 years… I know if it was me I would have moved on as I wouldn’t have had anythng to loose. My biggest fear is that she won’t let go and will wear him down one day.
Take care everyone… each day you get stronger and stronger.
Truly…this has been a long and winding road. A two year journey for me and counting. My H kept this side of himself very well hidden from me. (and this is a 27 year marriage– so either he was really good at hiding or I was really good at looking the other way. Likely a little bit of both)Probably the best piece of advise from my therapist was : “Keep a journal so you can look back and see clearly where you’ve been, where you are, and then maybe see where you are going” It has helped me alot!
I agree about getting someone for YOU. My H won’t go to therapy – he’s stubborn, doesn’t believe in it, etc. – my therapist is a marriage and family therapist and would be happy to see us both but since he sees only me he is very clear that I am his client and my well-being is his priority – the psychiatrist who manages my meds says the same thing – my H is very aware of that and if we talk about what they have said, it’s interesting to see how he responds – after his relapse email contact in November, I told him that my psychiatrist said that I am too patient, have given him too many chances and questioned if that was the case because it is just how I am or if it was the approaching holidays, etc – when I told him this I also said that, after all, I am this guy’s client and it’s his job to take care of me – my H said that he understood that but to tell the doctor that he has resumed his role in protecting me – he doesn’t think he ever really stopped – of course, his way of protecting me from his affair was to keep it a secret which is very dysfunctional thinking – but I thought his response was interesting – it was almost like he didn’t like the fact that there are these two guys who have to move in and help me heal from something he did
My H is on his 2nd therapist. This one is a “take no prisoners” kind a gal. He comes home looking like something the cat dragged in. But she asks him questions that he must answer. Questions like: Why are you still married? His answer? “Because I don’t want to disappoint/hurt anyone”. She asks, “And you think that you haven’t hurt them already?” For my own sanity, I eneded up having to separate “me”, “him”, and “us”. I believe strongly that there is nothing between 2 people if there is no trust. I asked that we try and build a friendship first and see what happens. Again, the building blocks to a great marriage are built on a strong healthy friendship. And if we can’t be friends we have no business being married. (as I define marriage anyway!) My parents have been married for 52 years. My mother would like to propose a law that goes like this: “Marriages are only good for 25 years. They automatically dissolve at that point and the partners either renew the vows or thank each other for the time spent together and move on.” I am completely with her! lol
Hi All –
Just had a bad nigth/morning but didn’t let my H onto this. I was crying and thought to myself, “I can’t go on like this daily, I can’t be in a marriage where I have zero trust, etc.” I know for a fact that the OP’s phone call set me back mentally. It feels like I took tiny baby steps for 4 months to get the tiniest amount of stability and trust and her call just shattered it. A part of me thinks, “was that her plan? did she lie awake nights knowing that if she called, it would perhaps make us fight, possibly divorce, etc? Then I think, who is this evil? But, the only proud thing is I haven’t let my H see this side of me. He has no clue. Thank GOD I can share this with you all. This is the most amazing support I have ever found.
Jessi – ironically, Wednesday nights are a huge trigger for me as well. My husband has meetings every Wednesday evening…and he would come home at 1:00 a.m. afterward (when he was in the affiar) and would lie and say he had drinks with the guys afterwards. Now, after the meetings, he’s been coming right home on time…BUT last night he came home at 11:45, said he had 2 drinks, and I almost died. Then, this morning, I tried calling him on his cell phone and it went right into voice mail. His story, “it was on the charger”……(heard that one before)….and he just called me and said, “you don’t seem OK? I love you, etc” and I said, “I am fine!”….(don’t want him to see the insecurity).
If he is doing something behind my back, I have to be prepared emotionally. I can never let that nightmare ruin my health, my parenting, my overall “being”. And, he might be doing nothing wrong, but my therapist says always go with your “gut” and watch “actions”.
Do anti-depressants help with all of this? Do they really make an impact on your emotions? I was considering this but never have taken them (probably should, my dad is on Cymbalta and it works!)…thanks for the support!
Liz,
My H’s OP still emails and calls even after he has said “no more”. And it’s almost 2 years now. And he still engages her, chit chats politely and then tells her, “Really. No more. This time I mean it.” The last time he did it was 3 weeks ago. Then, when I confronted him,he admitted it & would like a gold star because he didn;t lie to me this time. I was merely going on a hunch, but I was right. So, listen to your therapist. Don’t ignore your gut feelings. In my H’s case, his therapist told him that he is addicted to his fantasy and “it is harder to let go of the fantasy than it is to let go of reality”. (and since I am “reality”, I can only conclude that this will go on and on and on…) Like an alcoholic is always an alcoholic, so too the fantasy addicted until they are ready to give it up. I give up thinking that this will get better and it seems that has allowed me a way off of the emotional roller coaster ride. I see clearly what is before me now and, at least for the 3 weeks since the call, I have been able to cope because I am no longer expecting honesty so there’s no way he can disappoint me now.
Of course the OP knows him as a kind, caring, emotionally avaiiable guy. She does not know that those are the tricks of his trade, so-to-speck. He baited her, pure and simple. Now, after 2 years she is doing the same thing I am doing. We are living on the memory of “what could have been”.
Nicki –
I just asked my H today, “were you shocked to hear from the OP?” and he said, “very, especially after so long”. Then we talked and I told him that I can’t get “burned” ever again by him, that I needed to understand what was so bad about ME that he felt he must “escape” ME. The therapist constantly says, “don’t take it personal, it’s all about him”…OK, I get that to a degree…BUT, how can you being the other half in a marriage not take that PERSONAL? And I agree with you, how can we ever live up to the fantasy person? The only thing I can say is when the OP becomes obsessive, and whiney, etc. then maybe our spouses see they are REAL and not a fantasy figure anymore.
I also have the hardest time wondering what he told her about me. I can’t assume it was GOOD or why on earth would he be with her instead of home with me?? He said, “I told her way too much negative, then she overcompensated by doing everything I wanted, etc” He said she made it “way too easy for him to keep coming back”.
My mom thinks he made definate promises to her. She says it’s so typical of affairs, to keep the person holding on. He tells me that he told her it was never an option to leave his family, but how many people are fine with that?
Hi all – okay first of all and this is so weird – I too have an issue with Wednesday nights! last year, after I found out about the affair and had him tailed, it turns out that the OP’s daughter had dance class on Wednesday nights (mind you at the same studio that I had class on Thursday nights) and they apparently met and had coffee in Dunkin Donuts or in his car in an empty parking lot and talked (this is on videotape)- this was during their “friendship” phase after he told her that I knew and that he was ending the physical aspect of the affair – of course later, looking back, it occurred to me that he also had had a number of “meetings” on Wednesday nights so that was clearly one of their regular meeting times – here’s the best part – I probably posted this earlier but a few months ago I discovered that she has a Wednesday night “date” at our Starbuck’s – with another woman friend – they sit and talk and have coffee – so she has filled her Wednesday nights now that she doesn’t have him to be with – Nicki – I love your mom’s quotation. Liz – of course it feels personal because it’s happening to us – but I think what our therapists are trying to say is that the chances are that whatever drove our H’s to do this is internal and not caused by things we did or didn’t do – what they need to realize is that if they were feeling unhappy, insecure, old, bored or whatever – there are many solutions to those feelings – they CHOSE infidelity – a very bad choice – my H claims that he has never said much of anything about me to her except how we got “here” – read “what was going on in my marriage that explains why I am having an affair with you” – he also claims that he never told her that he would leave me but that she spun her fantasies – what I have said to him is that it’s clear this chick has problems – breast cancer, abusive husband, no job of her own, little education, little opportunity to support herself – but once again she CHOSE a lousy way of dealing with her problems – anyone can be wonderful and nice and sweet when things are going their way – but you see what people are really made of when they are faced with challenges – another couple of thoughts – especially relating to Skinner’s rats – I am a psychologist so that’s a familiar theory to me – yes, you do have to positively reinforce what you want them to do – and Nicki – like your H, the first few weeks that mine was attempting to set limits I talked to him a lot about what he was “teaching” her by answering if she called, by letting himself get engaged in a conversation even if it was just a couple of minutes – even if what he was saying was “negative,” i.e., “don’t call me” – he was still reinforcing her with ATTENTION – she wasn’t listening to a word he was saying -it was like the blah, blah in Snoopy cartoons – all she was focused on was that she got him to respond – our H’s don’t get this very basic principle – that even negative attention can keep a behavior going
Hang in there y’all, and thanks for being there
Liz, I was where you are a few months ago. Crying at night, thinking about how they were plotting against me, or how the OP was trying to manipulate my H etc…. Really, in the end, I only hurt myself. I deprived myself of sleep and I shed way too many tears on two people who don’t deserve them and I wasted alot of energy on things that really, in the end, don’t matter. By this I mean, that whether she plotted to make the phone call cause trouble, or whether she wanted to seem this way or that way, really don’t mean a thing unless your husband buys into it. He didn’t seem to care that she called so, maybe that’s a good sign? Talk about the call in therapy. Make him give you his point of view of how the call affected him. I would be on high alert if he was out again having “drinks” on the night he used to see her. I’d would tell him how much anxiety it causes you, and if he’s not willing to stop then take Jessi’s advice and tell him you are taking control of the anxiety and doing things to help yourself. Don’t tell him what though. Truth is that you’ll know if he is seeing her again. It will come out, searching or no searching.
My therapist, is also our marriage counselor. He has been a great influence on my husband, as far as encouraging him to open up and be honest. He hasn’t said we should or shouldn’t stay together, only that by our marriage “tests” that we took, we seem to have alot of great qualities and a few shortcomings. He told my husband the first appointment, not to waste our time if he was still seeing the OP. He said if he was seeing the OP then he needed to come clean and say it, if he wanted any chance of saving our marriage. He said it would only destroy us for good to hide it. He reiterates this at each appt. He also praises him for coming every week and for not contacting her and tries to make me feel confindent that my H’s behavior is trust building. He also told my H that while he has this emotional attatchment to the OP, the emotional attatchment to me must be stronger because he hasn’t left me and ended with her and is here in therapy working on our marriage so that should say something to us both.
Liz, he also recommended I go on an antidepressant because he gave us both a symptoms test of depression and anxiety and I had ALOT of them pretty frequently. So my MD put me on Lexapro. I’ve only been on it a week, so I’ll let you know how it works. It does make me a bit sleepy, so I am taking it at night. He also gave me xanax for panic attacks, and ambien to help me if I can’t sleep.
Sue, hang in there kid. You are stronger than I am. I woulda let him go a long time ago, I’m afraid. I’m not in your shoes, so I can’t tell you what to do, but as I keep saying, he needs to sh*( or get off the pot. Have you thought about what you will do if he really does return home? What happens when it’s just you two again? I guess I just don’t understand what he is doing? I know how it is to not want to give up when the hope is there that you and he can make it, but his words aren’t backed up by his actions. I just don’t want to see you hurting. Take care. MS
Hi All! Marlene–My H and I have been over and over this. I am generally a very calm person and I am willing to explain things to my H in 3 languages, if necessary, to make sure I have been clear. He gets what I am saying in the moment, but as soon as the phone rings he picks it up and is “nice”. It could be 6 months in between calls and they pick up right where they left off. The rule was NO MORE and he agreed. He absolutley knew the marriage was riding on it. So, when she called 3 weeks ago and he picked up I asked him if he thought of the promise he made me. Not surprisingly, he said it never crossed his mind. I truly believe that he is waiting for her to end it. He’s been waiting for her to call and tell him she found someone else, so that he can breathe easier knowing that she is done with him. Does that make sense? Liz–As for what they have told the OP about us…my theory is that they told them “enough”. Just the fact that they were paying any attention at all to them speaks volumes. Add that to a woman whose self-esteem is low enough to take something that doesn’t belong to her and there is a perfect infidelity cocktail. I sometimes slip and think what did she have that I don’t have, but I can’t stay there long anymore because truly it is not about me. I am a great person who happens to be married to someone who will never be happy. The other day he asked me what kind of man I really want in my life. The answer: My ideal has nothing to do with what a man looks like or what he does for a living. I quite simply want a man who loves life. That ended that conversation quickly! lol I am so grateful for all of you!
Wednesdays…..hmmm…..the night I found out. He took the recycling and garbage out and didn’t come back…I woke up at 3AM in an empty bed. I try to take them out in the morning each week as it causes anxiety if I do it on Wednesday nights.
MS….I hear you. He spent most of the week with me (not overnight, but lunches, dinners, with the kids, etc.) Yesterday said he might come tonight too. I didn’t believe it, but then talked to me this AM and said “Of course we’ll talk tonight.” We both had our individual sessions and his was late in the afternoon. He called the kids earlier than usual and just asked to speak to them. I got back on the phone and relayed the sequence I just wrote to him and asked what was up. I asked if he cared to explain….very neutral and simply inquistive. This is new for me. I don’t do it well, but am OK with it tonight. He said “No.”. I was so shocked I was silent…..which was good because he followed it up with an apology and said he couldn’t talk. I could tell he was ‘home’ and probably with her. This is unusual in itself as he never calls in front of her. I asked if he could call later and explain and he said yes…..I told him I would look forward to it. 10PM and no call. Don’t know what to make of it.
Trying to keep the anxiety at bay. I’ve done so well this week to not focus on what is happening ‘there’, but to focus on what we are doing to move toward each other. He is supposed to take the kids tomorrow skiing for the first time and has made steps toward that. They leave for school in the AM and don’t come home, so I’m getting anxious about that as well.
I’m trying really hard not to fill in the blanks for myself, but to wait for him to do so. It really could mean anything. Never thought I’d hang in this long and feel as strongly as I do about hanging in there. It is weird to not feel desperate, but still feel hopeful.
I’m going to a massage therapist on Saturday who is also a ‘seer’. Many of my friends have gone…..even those who don’t really believe in that and they all rave about her. When I made the appointment she started to give me a reading during our conversation! It was amazing. She was VERY positive and said that although I have had a recent trauma (I told her nothing) this is a challenge that is for ME. And that I will come out in great shape. Words I needed to hear. She had a lot of specifics about me too that we bizarre. Don’t know if any of you buy into this stuff, but I have to tell you I see this as a huge support. Positive guidance. Will let you know how it goes.
As for the meds. I have them all and take none of them…..yet. I’m close though. I can feel it. Depression usually hits me around this time of year (mildly, but enough to bother my day to day). I think I will start soon. My teeth have been clenched non stop for 3 days now despite my positive outlook…..go figure. My jaw is killing me!
I still believe I’ll get the call….hope so anyway. Hope my kids go to sleep soon too! I think they pick up on my feelings daily….I feel badly about that.
Will try the chat room.
I forgot to add my comment about antidepressants – I am on Remeron – I started it in April and it helped be almost immediately with sleeping better – I take it at night
Hi all! Sue–I most definitely buy into seers. Like all therapies, I take what I need and leave the rest. This part of my journey involves me learning to let go of a specific outcome so I can allow what will be to be. (so advises my seer) It makes perfect sense to me. Ever hear that poem “Let Go and Let God”? It is tiring for me to keep giving it up and then taking it back.:-)
Hi All!
the advice you all have is great. I think I do better for a few days, then have my little emotional panic attacks, or I start feeling sorry for myself and then I have to give myself the old “pep talk”.
Just a quick note, the OP’s birthday is coming up and I can’t help think, will he send her a card??!!She gave him one for his birthday. Or, Valentine’s Day, same thing, will he send her a card or some type of gift (behind my back, of course!) becuase if he blows her off on those two eventful days.. then it’s really OVER and she wouldn’t forgive him or understand, etc.
The fact is, how do I quit obsessing about this? If he does, so what right? It’s not worth being married to him at this point. I create all this in my head and fill in all my own blanks. I need to relax and try to trust, watch his actions, etc. (so much easier said than done!)
I just read an article on the internet that said leaving a bad marriage too fast doesn’t help you. It suggested getting the bad marriage to a good place, then making up your mind if it is indeed “good enough” for you. Also, it said most infidelities happen when kids are in their teens becuase people see their teens dating, becoming adults, etc and the person is longing for when they were their teens age, when life was exciting and they were young, and dating and they think having an affair will recapture that part of their youth. It also said teens are very difficult and it’s not fun dealing with their issues which strain a marriage.
It also said the longer you have been in a marraige, the harder it is to leave it due to the memories and it’s like giving up a part of yourself! It’s a huge void. I think this is why I am having such a hard time making a decision. The kids are a huge factor of course, but I think it’s familiarity.
As for the meds, do they help with the obsessive thoughts? That’s my biggest issue right now, I get obsessive, flashbacks, then it leads to depression.
Liz……I would definately talk to your Dr if I were you. Sounds like it might help.
I don’t usually post during the day, but I’m starting to climb the walls! I finally got a text at 10:30PM saying “So sorry…i can’t talk right now……I love you.” I texted back that I trusted he was doing the right thing for us and for him to remember that I love him. Took alot to be positive, but I did it.
So……..on Fridays we talk by now to arrange lunck at 1PM and then counseling at 2PM. STILL have not heard even an email from him! Not only do I not know what to make of it, I am now very nervous that a crisis has been created and the kids’ weekend is in jeopardy. They are at school thinking dad will pick them up and drive north. I’m trying to stay positive and anything else will only feel worse.
Nicki..that’s what I am doing right now..letting go of a specific outcome. It is really hard, but I have been able to function this morning and know I’ll make it through. I’m hopeful he really is cutting the ties. I’m fearful that it is worse. It is most likely somewhere in the middle. So I will live today the best I can for me!
Will update when I know what is going on in my life!
just got a text that he is running late for everything today, but will meet me in an hour…..a text! I also got a hang up call before that………very puzzled. Will check in tonight if I’m lucky enough to be home alone. Now there’s progress…..I’m calling that lucky!
Sue, is he at home or work and is the OP there??? Just wondering.
I just went and got a “makeover” on my lunch hour and it really made me feel good about myself, also relaxing and it took my mind off of the obsession. I want to get a professional massage also, again, a stress reducer. I figure, he spent 6 months on HIMSELF, indulging with the OP, going out to dinners, and God knows what else! I have always felt guilty of spending money on me, the family always came first, etc. but now, I have a different attitude! My kids come first, but I think treating yourself to the little pleasures in life really make you feel special and deserving. I am not counting on him to make me happy, it has to come from ME! Boy, does today feel good. Now, if I can continue this upward slope.
Sue – please write as soon as you can :) I am dying over here! Ha!
Hi all – by the way, I “knew” on Valentine’s Day last year but proved it two days later when I found her card to him – and gee, it was a Wednesday-night-into-the-wee-hours-of-Thursday-morning discovery – ugh – a horrible time – I am trying to focus on how much better off a year later – trying – succeeding most of the time –
Nicki – my H also said something about anticipating that she would go on with her life and find someone else and that when she did so, there wouldn’t be any threat to me if they had contact – I told him somehow I didn’t think that her new boyfriend or husband would appreciate her seeing the man she had an extramarital affair with – my therapist is not a seer – but he is a Buddhist and he teaches meditation – I took a class from him last year – he also is a huge proponent of letting go of the outcome – and saying we need to believe we will be okay no matter what – hang in there everyone!!
Uh…. I found out on a Wednesday too!!!!! Is that the weirdest thing? H is out of town till tonight and has been texting me all day, that he misses me, loves me etc. I love hearing from him and I love him sending me notes etc., yet in some way it seems so artificial ya know? I used this analogy with him when we were talking about where our marriage was heading one day: I said it’s like having this brand new car, all shiney and new and you love this car and take really good care of it. Then one day someone crashes into it and smashes it to the point of totalling it, only it gets fixed instead and you bring it home, and you look at it but it never really is the same. It never looks the same, drives the same or feels the same. It’s like it’s tainted and you just want to get rid of it and get a new one, yet you love the car so much you just can’t bring yourself to get rid of it. The next thing you know it’s been smashed again and fixed, then smashed again and fixed etc, and pretty soon you just think to hell with it, the car is never going to be the same and you have to let go. The only way you’ll keep it is if you can be promised that it’ll never be smashed again, and since there is no way to promise that if you’re going to drive it, what do you do? I said I have a choice, buy a new car, get rid of the old one and move on to a better choice, or keep the old one and hold on to the good stuff I loved about it in the first place, and hope that it doesn’t get smashed again, cause if it does, it’ll be the junkyard. LOL Anyway, that’s how I see my marriage these days. Sue, please update, I too am curious to see the outcome today. Liz, hang in there, you sound like you’re in an upswing, keep it up. It always feels good to do something nice for yourself. Plus it shows in a positive way to him also and that’s always attractive. MS
MS – GREAT Analogy!!! I love that. Perfect.
My therapist told me somthing similar about my marriage and the affair. She said, “Liz, if your husband was driving a car and you got into a head on collision with him and you survived, if a week later he said, “hey hon, let’s go for a drive”…you would be TERRIFIED to get into the car with him. But say, you risk it, and you think it was “just an accident, etc.” and then WHAMO….you get into ANOTHER head on collision with him and he’s driving again…would you honestly ever get into the passenger seat with him driving again? Sorta like me right now, I am back in the car with him for the THIRD time…..and I keep wondering if I should become the driver….ugh!!
Yes, today was a great day. He’s sort of in a crappy mood tonight, and I am trying to totally ignore it. (hard) but I love when I can do it!
Tomorrow we have a “date” to play cards once again (on a euchre league). I love going, but hate the fact that it’s the very same place where his affair began. Everytime I think of them there, kissing, etc. It’s so hard!!
OK…….here’s the update….no big surprises here. He was simply with the OP and felt I would demand too much and it would cause us too much pain to talk to me. UGH! We spent our entire hour of therapy (and then some) on this. He gets it for the moment. I told him in many ways how I felt, but was the most clear in the end…as it usually it. I told him he made a choice to hurt my feelings in order not to hurt hers. This clearly upset him….good! My text back to him turned out to be a good one. It breaks what trust (I use that would very tenatively) we were building, but he admitted it made him feel like shit.
I felt good that I took the high road and he has to deal with his own stuff without me badgering. There is a definate turn in the road here and I do not know where it will go.
He is currently driving to NH with the kids to ski for the weekend. Everyone is happy about that. Although I am definately apprehensive about my first weekend alone…..even though I need it badly.
There is a God………this is a group ski house and he will have to spend the weekend with the couple who taught him how to ski and the only ones of that generation I have seen and told. As well as their daughter and her kids (you may remember from a previous note…..his first kiss as a youngster!) who, I believe is also having an affair….although it could be her husband…….they are all too cryptic about the details for me to know. The fact is that he will face this head on in many ways this weekend and I see that as really good.
The kids are so happy that he is taking them and he is so happy to be doing it. That part is good. I’m still getting a lot of pressure to join them tomorrow night, which I would love to do. But I know it is something that should not happen. So I’ve made plans with a friend who I’ve made promise to not let me go. It’s funny that this is my weak point. But I know it. Again….turn in the road.
Thanks to all of you for your posts…..sooooo helpful.
Liz…..psyched to hear you took care of yourself today. Also grateful to all on the ‘seer’ notes. I really think a positive outlook that does not obsess on a particular ending is so helpful and I’m working toward that.
BTW…..just got home from work……wish that part were more in control and peaceful! One step at a time I guess.
I’ll be in touch over the next few days I’m sure…it will be my lifeline. I will be in the chatroom as well.
Peace to all.
Sure is weird about Wednesdays!!! Sue I see a lady who reads coffee and she has been spot on with everything. I never tell her what is going on but she always sees it in the coffee. Sometimes the incident hasn’t happened yet but it is not long before it does. I often see her before I go to counceling as it fast tracks some of the issues that need to come up. She saw our separation last year then she saw when her was heading back. Has said right from the start that she does not see a divorce but that I could be the one that walks away!!!
Sue – I am glad you are going to do something with your friend! I also, have always felt my H has protected the OP’s FEELINGS over mine. He would say, “I created this, she has low self-esteem, Don’t you think she’s hurt enough, blah, blah, blah. It would AMAZE me. Where is the devistation that you feel for your WIFE and KIDS? That is why I think I am so leaning towards divorce still. They were both adults, made a horrible choice, she’s 48 years-old, slept with a married guy with 2 little kids and he feels all this symapathy for her? UGH! What about your wife who you lied to and put through emotional hell? He says he feels “sorry” for me and “understands” but it’s just never at the level to which I need to see/feel. I am not asking him to ball his eyes out everyday, etc. but I just feel like it’s more “lip service” and I really don’t see all the emotion in his face that I need to. I read something that said narcisistic people tend to shed tears for “show” and also for “frustration” towards themselves!! So, he cried twice when I filed for divorce, and I think they were tears of pain for HIMSELF. Not the pain he caused me. I don’t know, guess I never really will. I am not a mindreader. It’s just how I view it….
Jessi – coffee? that’s cool! I thought of going to see someone for fun. One of my friends wants to have a party where a psychic comes in and gives each of us a reading. She read my taro cards last year, and it said I would “find a new life”…hmmm.
Hi All!
MS–Car analogies! I love this! I tell my H that he may not have intended to run over me with the car, but accident or not, the injuries & pain I sustained is very real.
Sue–I am glad to hear from you this morning. You are an amazing woman. (and egoless, I think :-) Did you ever wonder whether the unconditional (endless?) love we have for our H’s is so similar to the love we have for our children? I think about this alot. Especially when I wonder what it would be like to be married to a real man. I wondered that out loud to my H the other day and he didn’t even flinch! Hmmmm…
Liz–I think your H and mine are on the same mood cycle! He was positively unbearably “broody” yesterday. I had to bite my tongue in half practically, to keep from talking to him. It’s important for me to shut up, be nice, etc so that he can see his own reflection clearly and not use me as an excuse for why he is angry. Does that make sense? This morning he’s a new guy.
Jessi-I have heard of reading the tea leaves, but not cofeee grounds. I thought I had heard and/or tried everything! The have the best reader in the world I would hesitate to call her psychic because that description falls way short. She has a Master’s degree in Psychology and is an aura reader. She has helped me understand my H’s true issues, fears, ect. Left to my own decises it would have taken me 50 years to figure out!
Marlene–Here’s my theory on the OP will get married theory. My H wants her to stop first! He has asked her 3 times to stop emailing, calling, etc. And since he seems unable to “delete” and/or “ignore” because of his need to be a “nice guy”, the only way for it to end, in his mind, is if she gets married and moves on. Somedays, I can hardly stop myself from laughing when I think how jr high the drama they create really is!
Let’s live, love, laugh and then laugh some more this weekend, okay? :-)
Here’s a collection of great advise and phrases I have collected in the past 2 years:
1)Get to a point where you are okay with or without him
2)Do what makes you happy & makes you feel good
3)What he did is not personal
4)The decision to stay or go is yours and you will manifest a wonderful future no matter what decision you make!
5)Your kids love you and want you to be happy
6)You are learning to trust your intuition and own your power
7)If you longing for a specific outcome you will push that very outcome away (the key to manifesting your perfect outcome is to LET GO)
8)Always a giver, it’s now time for you to learn to be a receiver
Liz and MS – I love those car analogies – similar to the “bounced check” one I read on the Dear Peggy site – I think they are so self-absorbed that they don’t see how their actions really contribute to our distrust of them – Liz and Sue – as far as them protecting the OP’s feelings over ours – one thing my H said along those lines lead me to believe that one of the reasons he was so concerned about her feelings was that he felt guilty for “choosing” me and our marriage – he let her down and although he knew he also let me down I think he saw it as if I “won” and she “lost” so she deserved more sympathy – a little too egotistical, no? also she frankly is needier, no two ways about it – obviously once I knew about the affair, that could have been the impetus for him to leave me and go to her – but that isn’t what he did – nor did he leave her completely to work only on us – he stayed right there in between the two of us and I cannot tell you how many stories (this blog has so many examples) I hear about that same kind of ambivalence – the reason the old car is such a good analogy is that the history that two people have between them, like in a marriage, goes a long way toward contributing what they will accept and forgive about the other – sometimes I think we love each other the way we love our kids – you know that your kids can do things that you don’t like, make you sad, drive you crazy, etc. – but we give our kids unconditional love – we love them in spite of all their behaviors – I think this is what may happen in our marriages – that we love our spouses the same way and they kind of know that we do – so they push the envelope much harder with us and really test our tolerance – the psychiatrist who manages my meds heard my story the first time I went to him and the first words out of his mouth were “your husband is not afraid enough of you – he doesn’t fear losing you enough” – hmmm – that gave me a lot to think about
Sue– I was thinking about you this afternoon and wondered if you ever tried playacting like it doesn’t matter to you what he does or doesn’t do? I suspect that these guys get hung up betwixt and between because they think they have options. I am at a point now where I seriously do not care which way it goes. I am in the observer position now. I have told my H what I must have in the relationship: Truth and Fidelity. If he can’t or won’t step up I have my answer.
You guys are great! I agree with everything you have to say. Albeit…different times and places.
I had a great day today……..totally took care of myself and am feeling really good about it. Manicure, pedicure, shopping (new underwear for the first time in about 7 years…yuck…but true) the seer and finally a really great dinner with a friend.
Talked to the family several times throughout the day as they seemed worried about me…..I think I accurately calmed their fears! :)
The seer was the best part. She hit me on the head in so many ways. She started off on the money(was accurate about the situation) and worked through being direct with me about what I needed to work on…..which took me some time to understand….and I still can only grasp at some of it…….and worked through the marriage, kids, my past etc. I gave her almost nothing and she gave me exactly where I am.
Most of it was not surprising but very affirming and helped tremendously in dousing the fears. There is no answer….which says a lot about how good she is…..but quite a bit of direction.
The only real suprising zinger was that I thought I was further down the road than he was to self discovery…..so much time alone, thinking, talking and finding myself. And she was very clear that that is not true. We are both moving down the road. It’s hard to explain here, but I had a really bad tarot reading a few months ago because the woman made judgments……sooo bad. But in hind sight, and especially with what was said today, that woman was probably very on target prior to her judgements. The tarot person said my h was so stubborn and had so many layers of self awareness to go through that it was next to impossible that he would ever get there…..then she told me to run fast.
Tarots are a place in time that can change…..hence the judgement is not appropriate at all. The woman today (did not know about the tarot reading) said that he is very stubborn and had so many layers to get through that it was not possible before for him to do so. She said it has changed now because he is in counseling and doing a lot of work. She said he has many layers but it is attainable now where it would not have been before. It was wild for me to hear this after the one before.
The guides told her clearly that it is 30% me and 70% him. We are both working at it and that it is savable, but he has to make the decision. I have to answer the ‘why’ question for myself, work on the past trauma of my childhood, and stop my passive aggressive behavior. I have to ‘find my voice’. This is so empowering to me.
It means…..there are no answers. But the road is somewhat clear. Not any different than any of us have said. Work on myself and he works on himself and we see where that fits in the end.
But the peace in it is that the affair is a symptom…she is nothing really…but the problem is very real. We should continue to spend time together and reignite the flame. It made me feel good about what I’ve done……and calmed the noise in my head a bit. We may not end up together, but it won’t be because we didn’t try. And try for the right reasons. AND……my kids are OK. They will need counseling in their 20s..duh…….so that is a relief as well.
I know it sounds like I am putting all stock in this. I am not, but there is more to it than I can write and she was soooo helpful with it all. I offered next to nothing and she saw it all. I thought she was really good because, not only what she knew/saw, but because she was clear that the answers are within what is done with the information and time. No guarantees.
Nicki…..loved your words of wisdom…..very wise words.
Unconditional love thing…….it got me through the shock….but it is not so much in play now. However, this woman, also very accurately, told me today that I need to stop being so rational and logical and allow my true feeling to emerge and integrate with that part of myself. Not to be afraid of it. I’m just trying to do it! So…….not really unconditional love…..just stopped up emotion! She’s right and I am trying. The funny thing is that my h recognizes a lot of this in me and has been really helpful throughout this in getting me to see it without me wanting to kill him! Go figure. A process. Painful! But I am, today, excited about the end results…with or without my h……just for me.
keep it up everyone! we are doing really well from what i can see!
I agree Nicki, I am getting to that place where I really don’t care anymore. I can comforably enjoy my life doing what I am doing be it with him or without him. I had been talking about going to an art exhabition for ages and it is nearly finished. He was off doing things with his male friends yesterday so I just went by myself… wouldn’t have done that before. Guess what, I really enjoyed my own company, had a great day and when he got home deep down I think he was a little disappointed he missed out..yay!!! Anyway he has been very attentive today and I have seen some glimpses of the guy I married. I just show him all the good side of what is going on and share the down moments with you guys, at least you all understand where I am at and can help out. I am begining to enjoy this new woman that is starting to emerge in me.
The coffee reader also shed some light on what is going on in my h’s head, it would have taken me ages to see it as well. I plan to go and see her in a few weeks and see what has changed. She has told me I will be fine what ever why it goes and she has also told me that he would never have the intelectual conection with the OP that we have and that is very important to him. From all those that I know who know her the say she is not very bright. I could have told him that… what intelligent woman would let someone string them on for over 2 years!!! I have a right to hang on he is my husband and the father of my children!!
Hi All! It’s all good. :-) Sue is getting her groove on & Jessi is nurturing her muse! The accidental blessing in our common experiences is that we are finding the woman/girl within (we all remember her, we just have her shoved in a closet somewhere!) I am confident that we will emerge from our cocoons, at just the right time, as the beautiful, unique butterflies that we are!
I sometimes take great perverse imaginary pleasure knowing that (if they did get together)she is not what what he thinks she is and he is DEFINITELY not who she thinks he is. Ahhh…to be a fly on the wall when those great discoveries are realized! Where will I be when this happens? At Victoria’s Secret with Sue, of course! lol
I am a very open-minded person. I believe we all have the right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. So when my H said he met someone who “makes him feel young again”, someone he “had so much in common with”, I was happy for him. Seriously happy! I told him she sounded great and that I would help him get to her. That’s when he balked. He started backpedaling immediately with stuff like: “but, what about the kids?” To which I said, “Hey, don’t worry about the kids, they’ll be fine. We’ll explain so they understand. They aren’t babies.” And on and on it went like that. I didn’t start to get angry until I realized that he was still with me and still with her. No dice, big guy. Now, he was getting in the way of my right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness! That’s when all bets were off. It makes me very unhappy if I have to share, or compete for a, prize that I was beginning to think may not be as valuable as I once thought. Now, mind you, this isn’t about love. I love fiercely and loyally. And, I love him. It’s just that now…I love me more!
Nicki………great posts! So agree…..here’s hoping I can hang onto most of it.
Kids came home bickering and I was so happy to stay uninvolved until the three of them (kids and h) figured it out. They all said they had a great time. Once my h left the kids told me about their conversations with one another over the weekend and how they think they are bonding in a really nice way with their dad (their words).
So I am smiling for now. Not everything is right (some pretty major things are wrong), but some pretty majors things are on really good roads that didn’t even exist before.
guess I have to get back to work………..
cheers all.
Wow, these posts are so great, look at how far we have all come?
I have to share this with all of you! Last night was really bad, etc. but i never fought or argued with my H (advice of therapist!), I just “observed”. Let me tell you, if you do not react, it makes all the difference in the world! My H left this morning and saw that I was really quiet, and non-reactive, etc. Neutral. When he came home, he was soooo attentive, and wanted to totally talk about “US” and it was amazing. I just listened and he told me things that blew me away. He said he loves me more than he can express, that he is so afraid of losing me daily, that the affair was an escape, that he should have done the “hard work” to save our marriage and running to someone else was the worst possible mistake of his life. He said he just wants me to be happy, never sad again and if it means leaving him, he wants me to. He said I am the funniest person he’s ever met, the most beautiful, the strongest, and he cannot ever tell me how sorry he is for the pain he has caused me. And he went on and on. What is weird, is he did this totally on his own, without me threatening to leave or give up, etc. I don’t know where this came from becuase when he left his morning (we were supposed to go to breakfast together, and I didn’t go, just told him to go without me and it was fine! no fight, etc…)I know we still have a very long way to go, but it seems like he is genuine. I also told him that I wanted him to be happy too and that I just want us to be the best people we can both be, and the best parents and he totally agreed.
Now, I might a different guy tomorrow, but I’ll take this one today! Ha!!!
Liz,
You are so right. It is hard in the day to day though. I ‘found my voice’ tonight to express something that I needed him to help with. I could have done it myself, but that was not good for me, him or our son. (Just taking him to an appt in the AM). It was small, but created lots of strife between us due to our past way of handling it. In the end he agreed to take him and I kept my mouth shut. I think it was really hard for both of us. Such a small thing, but brings up so many issues about how we communicated and dealt in our relationship for so long. Change is hard. But if we are quiet….not ignore our feelings, but just not act out on them, it leaves room for the change……for everyone.
I don’t know what tomorrow will bring either..but I’m taking the good where I can get it and am so commited to working on me and finding my voice. Sounds like you are in a really good place for this process. A big step forward……and all steps forward help when there are the steps back.
Sue – my therapist was right, she said I would take 5 steps forward, 3 back, 10 forward, 4 back, etc. She’s right. Oh, believe me, I hope you don’t think I am totally banking on his revalation today. He has a TON of work to do on his own, it’s just that I notice a small shift in his behavior lately for the better, when I don’t react to him. There are many, many issues about him still that I can’t tolerate. The control is the most critical for me. But, if I can at least get him to treat me and the kids nicer on a daily basis, then no matter if we stay married, or divorce, at least I got some improvement. The therapist was right when she said, “I never want you to second guess yourself” and that’s exactly where I am at. I need to know that I’ve exhausted all possibilities before I call it quits. My therapist is divorced, and it took her 2 1/2 years to come to that decison, but when she did, she said she had no regrets. Right now, I am still working through so much of the trauma aspect of the affair still that it’s hard to sort out my emotions still. The anger, is slowly (and I mean slowly) starting to ease up. I also think I am starting to like myself so much more and I see the OP as so sad of a person that I feel like the two of them gave me a “gift” of making me realize what I am worth as a person, and what I want in life, and where I want to go! In the end, I think both of them will have way more regrets and inner demons than they ever expected! WE will be the ones who emerge out of this as amazing people!
Liz that is good news, still waiting for my H to express those feelings. I don’t know if he will ever be able to verbalise them but I can see him doing some little things. There doesn’t seem to be as much tension in the air when we are togeher. The big thing I have noticed is that he spends a lot more time at home these days. We went for a run together the other day after the first 20mins he did some speed work and I was doing a long run, on his way back he passed me in the opposite direction. About 4 mins later who should I come across .. the OP. Well that sent the head spinning but I reasoned with myself that she must have come down another track and he didn’t see her. I am sure if he had have seen her he would have got me to turn around and run back with him and if he had been in contact with her he would have baulked at the idea of me running with him that morning. So I have taken a few positives from that experience. Funny thing is all the times I have run that track I haven’t come across her at that time… I wonder if she was there because she thought he would be around at the same time!!!
Nicki I love your posts they are so full of inspiration. I remember telling my h that when he moves in with her don’t forget to thank her from taking him away from this dreadful existance that he has been living in all these years. Mind you he replied with all these positive things about our relationship. Wonder if he listened to himself and could hear how stupid he is being.
Sue I am starting to believe that the changes are going to be ever so slow and subtle and at the right time things will come to the surface and will be able to be handled the right way. I think because our pain hit us like a ton of bricks we expect the whole ton to be lifted at once where in reality it is just one brick at a time. Slow and not ideal I know but maybe as each brick comes off we can use it to build a strong foundation for our new relationship.
Just something I find a little amusing… when I found out this time I made him move into the spare room, eventually he would come to my bed during the night and just hold me. Then every now and then he could come into my bed when I went to bed. He now comes in every night. Lots of holding and cuddling, which is nice, and no pressure for anything else. What I find funny is that he hasn’t asked about moving his things back in although I have noticed a few things in the drawers. It is almost like he is really unsure of where I am at and I like it that way.
Keep moving forward everyone. Sometimes when the mountainn looks high just turn around and glance back at how far you have come.
Hi all – it’s good to hear all the stuff that everyone is experiencing! I was talking with my therapist on Saturday and I told him that I was realizing that when I think about the OP and whatever she had that attracted my H, I realized that even though we all have personality traits, we GIVE other people characteristics, too – in other words, many of the positive attributes that he ascribed to her in the stuff he wrote to her and even things he said to me were things that he imposed on her – the same way that when he was rationalizing and justifying why he did what he did, he attributed certain characteristics (negative ones) to me that helped “explain” why he was unfaithful. Jessi – as far as running (literally) into her – my therapist told me at one point to stop thinking about her because he believed I was literally conjuring her up – that I was almost “making” her appear – spooky, but he does believe in all of that spiritual stuff – I would not disagree, however, with the idea that she may be putting herself in places at times when he might show up – I know (because I saw her) that my H’s OP went to the grocery store at the time on Sat mornings that my H usually goes a week or so after their final good-bye – the thing is, she saw me, not him, because he went to a store in a different town, which he still does! by the way, our son is a marathon runner – he didn’t get that habit from either of us!
I know that we hardly need yet another book to read but my sister-in-law (my H’s sister) in whom I had confided is a librarian and she checked out a book for me that I read last week – had some good points in it for both the betrayed person and the one who was unfaithful – it’s called “Getting Past the Affair” and the authors are Snyder, Baucom and Gordon – so I thought I would pass it on to you – it does a very good job of hammering home the thought that there is no way that we should either compare ourselves to the OP or compare the affair to the marriage.
Marlene–Interesting idea about “conjuring” up the OP. I have often wondered that myself! It seems I can always sense when she is about to make a re-entry. I can call her moves waaay ahead of time. I am always right. Maybe a chicken and an egg quandry, huh? On the chance that I am calling her in to existence, I guess I need to be clear about what I want. (“come and get him” has been my latest desire of my heart :-)
Hi all!
Great posts, they keep me sane!
Sue – how is it going today??
Marlene – I agree with the characteristics comment! They do portray what they want the other person to be! And, remember, the OP is going to go out of their way, to cater to our spouses, they will be over-the-top to keep them in the affair! All they see is the good stuff. Until discovery, then the OP can’t keep up the image anymore because the wall of secrecy has been torn down. All their insecurities come out.
Nicki – I told the OP on the phone once when we were driving home from vacation (I noticed she called his cell phone and he lied, so I picked up the phone while we were driving and called her house right in front of him!) I said, “Hi, I see you called my H’s cell phone, just to let you know, you don’t have to hide and sneak anymore and play games, he’s all yours!” You should have seen his face!!! He was dumbfounded. I felt great and smiled the whole way home. He was expecting me to cry, and plead, etc. instead he got his wife telling his girlfriend, “he’s all yours”. I think it crushes their egos more than anything becuase what you are doing is #1 not fighting for them, and #2 showing them you’ll be just fine without them!