Learn from these real life extramarital affair coaching scenarios.
In the first section the person struggling with the marital infidelity summarizes the scenario or concern and what he/she would like to say to his/her cheating spouse.
I then outline some goals that help him/her break free from the affair.
The last and important section gets at shifting the focus away from the spouse/partner to him/her self. In other words, what does all this mean for the person on the receiving end of an extramarital affair? After that mental shift (which is NOT easy for someone in the pain and turmoil of perhaps losing one’s spouse, family, and home) I, the coach, offer phrases that he/she can relay to his/her spouse in a way that speaks directly of his/her concern and has the best chance of being heard and getting positive results.
Section 1: The “offended spouse” says:
I used to focus on what mood is he in, is he going to talk to me today, is he going to look/act like he’d rather be anywhere else with anyone else other than me. This habit/pattern is hard to break, but I’m working on it. I was so hurt and rejected that sometimes in my depression that I didn’t leave the house for days. All this in an attempt to figure out how to be okay with my life and how lonely I was. This was his excuse for his affair (“if you thought it was bad being that way, you have no idea how hard it is to live with a person like that” – thoughtful words from him after I learned of his affair). I’ve been figuring out “what makes me happy” as friends refer to it, but that seems selfish and that’s just not me. I’m learning how much living like that has affected the simplist of things – mood, attitude, communication and my relationship with our 13 yr old daughter. I wrestled with deciding whether or not to stay in my marriage and even though we’re still living together, I was non-committal and that hasn’t helped things much. But lately, I’ve been getting more clarification. I still don’t have all the answers as for our marriage, but I do know that I’m doing what I’m called to do right now. He has been making changes although I’ve been frustrated that they’re not the ones I think he should be doing. I realized that he’s trying and doing the best he can and I’ve not acknowledged the changes that he has made and that tears down the very thing that I said that I wanted. Regardless of where this leads, I’m ready to move forward with my life. He has an opportunity to rise higher in his life and our relationship and if he’s unable, I can accept that, but I know with all my heart that I need more than that and I love him enough to let him go. Otherwise, it’ll continue to tear us down as individuals and as a couple. That to me would be unforgivable – to intentionally choose that. I’ve finally forgiven him and I’m excited to be able to share that with him when I see him (he’s working 4 hrs away for a couple of weeks). I believe it’s a gift that both of us need and it’s necessary for healing regardless of whether we stay together or not. In addition to asking him to forgive me for where I fell short in our relationship, I’ve finally forgiven myself. The reality is that he made some wrong decision(s), but as painful as all of this has been (this was his second affair), I’m grateful for the opportunities that it’s opened in my heart. There’s great power in “pressing on” and getting through. I’ll even go as far as to say that I’m starting to determine my call and purpose in life. I don’t have the specifics yet, but I know that my past experiences were not given to me just to keep them inside and hide them away (survival of growing up in physical, emotional and verbal abuse, death of my child at age 7, two abusive ex husbands, battling depression, etc). I believe they can help others too. I’ve always believed that, I just lost sight of it. I’m excited to see how all of this unfolds. Well, I know you didn’t ask for a book, but I’ve never been one short on words.
Section 2: Personal goals suggested by the coach:
- Welcome your sensitivity. Learn ways to use it, especially with others.
- Examine, reflect, write down the “themes?? of your life that you are internally addressing when “depressed.??
- Congratulate your self on your tremendous growth and progress.
- Be very specific on the changes you want from him.
- List 5 factors that “hold you back?? from him.
- List 6 of your greatest personal needs. (Check out the needless program on my site)
- Continue working hard on defining your life’s purpose.
Section 3: What the affair means for the “offended spouse” and what he/she REALLY wants to say to his spouse/partner having the affair:
- I’m working hard on me, and boy, does that feel good. Also very exciting. But, I’m not sure, sometimes, where that leaves me with you.
- I want for us to have a richer relationship but it seems there has been so much pain and hurt, on both of our parts, that I wonder, what that means for our future.
- I have some very specific needs that I would like you to meet. But, I know this can be very tricky and rather scary. For example, I would like ____________. If you can do that, great. If not, help me understand what gets in the way. Maybe just give it some thought first, and we can get at it later.
What is your situation? Describe your situation. Let it flow. Don’t hold back. Then, ask yourself, “What does this marital mean for ME?” What impact does his/her extramarital affair have on my feelings, thoughts and actions? Then rehearse approaching your spouse/partner with phrases that convey the meaning and impact of the infidelity for YOU.
Hi all
Wow a new slate, depression to a future tinged with hope now that sounds much better to me. Focus on yourself , they are doing a fine job focusing on themselves and adding us to their pot of selfishness only adds to it all and in my opinion prolongs everything. take care of you, he is so why not you too.
Hi Jessi
yes your right about forgiveness but i think its more important oto forgive yourself, i mean alot of people blame themselves what did I do wrong, am i not pretty enough, etc, but what we must realize its really more about them and their insecurities than it is about us, this just causes us to look at ourselves. if we can forgive ourselves for whatever reason this happend then we can grow and move on. Sometimes the spouse isnt always around to communicate with which is in my case, so I have had to look inside myself more as a result and forgive whatever i may have blamed myself for and try my best to learn from it.I have heard so many esp woman say i am insecure about myself, some of that comes with having kids and being a mom, everything is like a test drive in life and we dont always know what we are doing wrong until we do it and we cant always be holding things against ourself for it as then we become non productive. Some people truly dont deserve to be forgiven esp if they havent done things to show they deserve it or if they havent asked for it. We can only forgive ourselves for why we are here and to become better with them or without them. Sometimes there are ways to forgive people without communication like setting them free, you know the old say if it comes back its yours if it doesnt it never was. We cant hold what we dont have. Everyone must be doing something good as all the rel here seem to be improving for the most part and I hope the upward swing continues.
Hey Sue
I have to agree with MS and what she said to you in the surface blog, you are becoming the OP, does she even know he is coming to see you or does she think its the kids he is coming to see. Maybe slip a love note in his pocket or a spray of perfume on his coat when he is not looking, maybe its time to get her going and let him see the real her. you could use this to you advantage. You have already given him ultimatems and it doesnt seem like it has worked yet so that road will prob stay the same til your fed up. If you really want your marraige back play the innocent OP, forget about her when he is there, compliment him on whatever, appearance, handyman etc dont make every time he sees you a discussion about her. Call when you need to when she is home you know about the kids, an important decision you need his help with. eventually she will come to resent it and him and that may be all he needs to push over the line to you. Please dont be offended by what I say it isnot my intention. He is living with her you are the OP technically so play the reverse role its worth a shot. what have you got to lose that you havent thought of already. Take care and thinkn of you
I agree, you have to get past blaming yourself.. being a mom and caring for elderly parents, working full time and everything else we do as women of this day and age makes us spread ourselves a bit thin. Needless to say the last thing we make time for is ourselves. In our case I think life just got in the way and we didn’t make time to talk about the important stuff. I don’t blame myself but I do accept my share of the responsibility even though I was unaware of what was happening. He just didn’t say anything to me and was busy withhis own life. Still waiting for him to come to terms with his share of the responsibility… I think deep down he knows but bringing it to the surface could be a bit confronting for him.
Shennie, you said it so much better than I did about the obeservations in Sue’s situation. I think I came on a little strong, but I just hate it when I see manipulation and indecisiveness on the offending spouses part. Sue, have you asked your husband a time frame that he is willing to set with you to put an end to this limbo he has created for you? Maybe if HE sets the time frame, he will work quicker to S–t or get off the pot?!!!! Sorry, I know how hard this is for you, I just see you sliding down from so much hope to breaking down now from the stress of it all. He has to know how him living with her and making promises to you, promises that he hasn’t done anything about, is affecting you. He just NEEDS to make a decision. Someone is going to get hurt, you or her. It’s inevitable. He is letting his guilt over this hurt cloud his judgement on what he needs to do. My thoughts are if he REALLY wanted to come home and stay, he would. He left didn’t he. So what’s so difficult about coming back? You are waiting with open arms and he knows you want him to come home, so it’s not like he should be afraid of rejection. My fear for you is that you were so strong, and moving toward a good life without him and starting to feel better, and then WHAM! he sees this and doesn’t like it that you are moving on without him and decides if he says the right things, he can keep you at bay until he sees what it is like with her. I think he sees how strong you have become and found the one weakness he can get to, him saying he wants to come home, and then he opens the crack to make a bigger cavern. Maybe I’m wrong, I don’t know him or you really, just what you write, so sorry if this sounds harsh. Once again, I am just looking out for you. Wish I could look out for me, but when you’re in the situation, sometimes you can’t see the forest for the trees and need someone outside to open your eyes. I know it’s easy for me to say, I’m not there. I just don’t want to see your hopes up and shattered if he can’t come through with his promises. Hope last night went well. MS
Sue
I will say this again, if you really really want to save the marriage i think you have to have a plan and all the chatting and talking doesnt mean anything if there are no actions to his words
I think you should give what i said above a try and if you get more tension between them he may see the real her and not someone through rosy colored glasses. If you just want it to be over then plan for that and be prepared for either way but in that I will tell you to possibly expect the worse, one thing i have learned is that when they are put on the defense they will choose safeness and that is likely with her right now. I agree with MS he is keeping you on a string and if he was truly working through things with you and really wanted to come home he would have by now that doesnt mean he doesnt love you he is just getting the best of both worlds right now and why shouldnt he because he can. Send the kids home with him and give her a tast of real life that is a mistake i made well didnt actually make but didnt have the chance to do because he awolled us for years and didnt see him but in looking back i should have sent them demanded it een so she could have a taste of the real life we know as reality. because so many years passed for us not all kids will go now but i wish that she could have her share of resp in this but she doesnt because if she did their life tog would not be so rosey trust me we all know this. She can empathize with him but if she had to deal with his kids it would show a side of her he may not like and may become defensive of his kids eventually. I know this is really hard because deep down you dont want your kids involved with this person anyways but trust me it will happen whether you like it or not depending on their ages so you may as well push the envelope wile you can and let her see and him what real life is really like and it may give you the needed break in the process to figure out what you want and develop a life for yourself another thing you will needfor sure. please dont take offence to any of this it isnot intended . I know you want to save your marraige but discussing a mute point endlessly willnot solve it and giving ultomatems wont get you what you want either, just think about it ok you have to do something but think of what outcome you want first and do what serves that outcome. I am worried about you.
MS – I have to agree with your comments about these guys in general. (or ladies)….it’s almost like they need their back against a wall. If it’s not against that wall, and they have “wiggle room”, then they cannot commit. Once they have crossed the line to infidelity, I think it does something to their brain. Ha! Sorry to be like this, it’s just that I am so tired of all the pain and lies and I have come to some type of clarity in all this. My husband is back home, I don’t think he’s cheating, but he never did anything to fix the animosity he’s caused between our families. For example, my daughter is in a play tonight, and both sets of families will be attending. He has done no apologizing etc, so nobody is “talking” and they are only going for the grandchild’s sake. So, what does that do to me? Builds animosity towards my spouse. This is what the aftermath of an affair does, unless the person truly is 100% remorseful and takes ACTION to rectify thier behavior, nothing really gets solved. And in turn, I have become bitter, resentful, and on the fence. It’s the age old, “let’s put it behind us”……it’s not that simple. If it was, we would not be on this blog!!!
just my two cents.
hope eveyone has a great weekend!!!!!!
First of all I have to say…STOP APOLOGIZING! I must be writing my feelings more clearly than I think I am because you are all responding as though you are sitting across from me. Your advice is well founded and appreciated.
The trouble for me is that I feel like I am not being manipulated. I don’t know if that is my wish, naivte or the reality. The trouble is that this is an impossible position for me to be in and finding the strength to be positive is unrealistic….but I do try.
I do need to keep the focus on me. That does help. Last night was pretty bad as he could not handle the negative. However, today was much better as he thought about it and responded well.
We hit ‘new’ ground today. He is still running and it seems to be more about the kids and the responsibility of being a parent. This is a bummer…..duh…for all the reasons you all know. But it is a realization for him that was not there before. He is not insightful about it, but is thinking about it and realizing that there is an issue there that may be motivating more of this than he thought could be possible.
His view of the world remains pretty distorted and I am not happy being the op. Shennie….your advice rings true as it is something that has worked well to get us to this point. I backed off and so did he (although he will vehemently deny that.)
I do NOT want him to leave her because of the ultimatum. I have come to that as I now realize I will always wonder if that happens. It really does have to be on his terms. Having said that I think I may have upped the anty for myself in that I must also be done on my own terms…….not because I think there may be another result. Which means when it is done, it is probably really done. It is both our personalities.
So I will continue to write to you all and appreciate all input. It helps me to sort it out on a daily basis. I hope it is somewhat helpful to someone else as well. I feel like I am jumping from one roller coaster to another.
I am pushing for him to take the kids skiing next weekend. He has never taken them ANYWHERE by himself (even out to dinner). Because of our lives this never really became apparent until now. He is having a hard time telling me no as the cards are on the table. Honestly, I think this will be more of a test of his ability to justify and run away than the affair. If he does it I truly believe it will mean good things….somehow.
I just have to remain calm in my thoughts and actions. The second I appear desperate for it to happen I will lose all.
Hope this makes sense. THANK YOU ALL AGAIN!!! You are experienced (yuck!) and I appreciate the words. I am strong enough to take what fits, question what I am not sure about and never say no to any of it! What does not fit today may fit tomorrow!
Will look forward to what is happening with each of you.
BTW….I think my friends are secretly thrilled that I found all of you as they are not getting the phone calls at night that take them away from their families. :)
Sue
I am glad you are encouraging for him to take the kids but do more than encourage play the separated part as you are so he will know what it is like if he stays with her you have to let him see its not all fun and games. If he has never taken them then he hasnt taken his share of the responsibility. make him do it and often it is only fair to you, set this timeline ok you have the kid on such and such for this length of time as that is how it WILL be if you divorce so let him taste it now and her.
Also i want to clarify something you may have misunderstood though i am a little reluctant but need to be honest with you.
when i talked about the ultimatum i wasnt assuming he would leave her i meant he would not come back. He is with her and that has proved to him a safeness right now otherwise he would already be back with you. i dont think an ultimatem would bring him back sorry if i said that wrong, it would push him to her. That is why i am saying your only alternative right now is to let him have a tast of what his life will be like in divorce his share of the kids. i dont mean to pry either but is he paying support right now. hope things improve what did you decide to do with the jan deadline i havent heard anymore on that what is his response to that keep us posted and take care
I’m exhausted and going to bed…just got off the chat room. But keep thinking about this laugh my sister in law sent me in the beginning of all of this…and it has kept coming closer to reality (which we talk about all the time) and wanted to share……(I think I may have given parts of it already…..but it makes me laugh and causes pause all at the same time).
A man comes home and tells his wife, “You haven’t lived up to you end of the bargain. When we were 25 we lived in an apartment with a futon and black and white tv. But that was ok because I was waking up every morning next to a 25 yo. hot babe. Now we live in a big house with a big screen tv and sleep in a king size bed. You have not held up your end.”
She says, “That’s OK honey. If you want to wake up next to a 25 yo. hot babe every morning you can be sure you will be living in an apartment, on a futon, watching a black and white tv. Not to worry.”
Oh so true………..
Hi all – thanks for the re-routing to the new blog – Sue, I think you are on the right track when you talked about ultimatums and things needing to be on his terms – he sounds an awful lot like my husband – believe me, I know what a terrible position you are in – although my husband did not move out and this was his way of saying to me that he had “chosen” our marriage, he continued to maintain contact with her via phone calls, emails and meeting for coffee, etc. and so it was all on his terms. He knew that I couldn’t accept those terms forever but couldn’t bring himself to let her go completely – he swore over and over that he never made her any promises and that he told her he loved me and didn’t want to leave me – but she spun her own fantasy and that gave me a lot of leverage to talk to him about how his actions were basically leading her on to keep hoping – trust me, she really really needed him – she doesn’t work a steady job and her husband was supposedly physically abusive, she had breast cancer – so she needed my husband’s emotional support, reinforcement that she was beautiful and the abuse wasn’t her fault, his income and his medical insurance – she would have loved to snag him because he is a well-respected and well-loved teacher in this community. Anyway what I wanted to tell you is that there have been three people who held me back from issuing an ultimatum early in the process – one was my male Marriage and Family Therapist – he advised me not to get into a power struggle; the second was my very best friend who has known my husband longer than I have – she talked over and over to me about how stubborn he is and how you don’t push him into a corner; the third was a woman I met through the site “Cheating Roller Coaster for the Betrayed” – that is a tough site b/c most people will advise you to make your demands and leave if they are not met – but this woman had been through two of her husband’s affairs and talked a lot about how ultimatums don’t work for some people -that said, I agree with what someone said about some people needing to have no wiggle room – everyone is different so you gotta use your knowledge of the spouse – one other thing I thought of – when I first found out, my husband had a lot to say about what a train-wreck our marriage was – as a matter of fact it was his telling me a couple months before my discovery about how unhappy he was in our marriage that made me start to snoop – what I felt was, if he left at that point b/c I gave him an ultimatum – either cut off all contact or leave – he would have only negative memories of our marriage – I felt that if I allowed him to stay and tried to build some positive things – even though it made me nuts that he wanted to maintain a friendship with her – he would be more likely to see that our marriage could work for both of us. I will also be honest – a huge part of me was just not willing, after 36 yrs of marriage and 40 years of knowing one another – to just hand him over to this person – if I truly believed that he had finally met the love of his life, maybe I would have acted differently – but I am a psychologist and the objective part of me believed that he was caught up in the romance and the intrigue and the passion – they were making him feel good about himself at a time in his life when his physical health was not good – he was affirmed by attracting a woman who was 9 years younger than he, etc. There were many times when I danced between the devastated wife and the understanding therapist – it was brutal and I don’t wish it on my worst enemy – hope some of this gives you food for thought – take care, all of you
Hi all, I am learning so much here. I agree about the ultimatums working for certain situations. I think that if your spouse isn’t truely “in love” with the other person, an ultimatum may work, but if there are any strong emotions for the OP, you take your chances that that’s where they’ll end up. My H told me last night after a lengthy conversation that he still cares for the OP whether it is love or not, he is not sure. He is struggling with those feelings. He was friends with this person for a LONG time before they actually moved to another level and that bond is difficult to break. She didn’t do anything to him and he loved being with her and loved the way he felt when he was with her. So I deduce that those were things he didn’t feel about me. That’s ok, but where does that leave me, us, I am not sure. He says he loves me, but is that love enough to break the bond with this OP, I don’t know? I am struggling with the realization once again that I am not the only one in his heart and the only person who can change that is him. I am living day to day here. Trying to keep my emotions in check as to not breakdown and push him further away. I realize at some point either he or I will have “enough” and release the other to find peace or he will realize that he was right in letting her go and find his peace with me. He has never “left” either, but if he does go at this point it won’t be that he is waivering, it will be that he realizes he still loves this person in a different way than he loves me or that he just doesn’t think it will ever work between us. I will not ask him to leave unless I know that he does not love me and stops trying to heal this wound. As long as he is trying, I’ll have hope. I do agree with Shennie about taking the kids, Sue. If my husband ever leaves, as much as I would it would kill me for him to take them, he will. He will take them and see the reality of the situation, and if he likes it then I’ll have to cope with that, but there is a chance that he will see that life with them and not me is not what he wants. Anyway, keep the faith, MS
Read your blog with interest Marlene. I feel a bit like you. Deep down I don’t believe this woman he has met is the love of his life, he even admtted she massages his ego. He saisd something that makes me feel like he is trying to recapture that initial romance feeling. The thing that I am having trouble with now is that he just can’t seem to put the things that happened in our relationship behind him and move on. It is almost like he is punnishing me for ant=ything I have done and that he is the wounded one in all of this. I am not sure if I want to hang in there any longer. For today anyway. I just don’t know if he has any forgiveness in his heart. Is anyone else feeling like the one that has to do everything to make things better. Is it his denial of the hurt he has caused that makes him act like this. Wish I could just crawl inside his head on really know what is going on.
Again and again…..I feel like we are living the same lives. MS and Jessi…..I am so where you are at right now. Marlene…I have used your words to guide me this weekend. MS…I would not deduce that he does not feel that about you. Feelings are complicated and the newness of a relationship without the hassles of family life are not so real. This is really not about you….as you know…..remember it when you think those things too.
We have had another really bad setback. He came for dinner last night and then left for other plans…having people over. Too hurt to write about it. He regrets it now, but too bad he is still playing those games.
We had a great family discussion tonight. The kids were having a breakdown when he showed up…about his lack of being there for them. It started off contentious, I left the room, came back and said we needed to all talk about the real issue of not knowing what was going to happen and how that is affecting us.
How proud I am of my 11 and 12 year olds. They spoke calmly and succinctly and said all that they feel. Including…..every time you ‘ditch us’ it erases all the good you’ve done because it brings back the feelings that you don’t love us. (My sentiments exactly…even though he can’t see the ‘ditch’ part.) And..we want you to put us first and even to surprise us sometimes by being with us when we don’t expect it, not because we asked or mom told you to be with us.
How great is that??? He responded really well by talking it through and then asking them what they really want. They told him they wanted him to ‘ditch’ the op and come home. He said, OK….then what do you want while we are waiting for that to happen. Tough one for everyone. That only got so far, but the words expectations and honesty were used a lot.
End result? He feels better than he did yesterday and clearly more connected. The kids are in a MUCH better state and were thrilled with the family dinner he brought over and prepared. I am distant and talking about moving on. I am calm and reasonable, but not in any way accepting of what has happened this weekend (or similar circumstances almost weekly). I told him it is up to him to make the change. It is about him. It is ever more questionable that we will be here waiting if he takes much longer. The kids actually said that too. Did I say how proud I am???
As far as the skiing thing goes. He hasn’t said no, but hasn’t said yes either. I have been very clear in asking him what he is so afraid of that he has never spent even a dinner out alone with them. You would think that if he can have the above conversation he would be capable of being alone with them. Something clearly scares the pants off of him. But he knows they need it. He hears me saying they will all feel really good if he does it. (Did I mention that I hate the thought of being totally by myself all weekend?) But it really does need to happen. On sooooo many levels.
As always….here’s hoping………
Sue
Not tryin to upset you more but why would he bother taking them out alone if well if he doesnt or hasnt had to. That was my whole point of giving him those responsibilities because not only will it show him what he has to do in the future he may have the opportunity to connect with them even more and realize their feelings on a more productive level. Its sounds to me like he isnt going to do anything about it anytime soon other than talk. I am glad the kids got it out but if he doesnt live up to whatever he told them he will have caused more damage to them in the end and his relationship with them. Was nice of him to make dinner for everyone im sure it makes him feel like he is doing his part. i really feel bad for you that he keeps sitting on the fence has he said how long he plans on doing that. Has that come out of these productive conversations. You said he left for other plans and regrets it now or is that just what he said because if he regretted it he could have changed it at any time. I am not trying to upset you but i think you are starting to let him take total advantage of this situation. because you want so desperately to save your marraige and i suspect he knows this and uses it to keep you connected. He hasnt even let the op go let alone start building you rel again. He cannot do that if the op is still in the pic and living with him no less. I hope this week brings more productive results for your sake.
Shennie, You are not upsetting me. Some of what you say is true and some is not.
The only way to ‘make’ him do those things is with legal paperwork. He has never done it in the past and I did not really see that until now….neither did he. This weekend will be a true test as now I truly have to work all weekend and the kids are totally expecting to ski……and should. He is responsible for them in the house, but really doesn’t get it outside of the house….as one friend said, it’s a good thing there are therapists! Just for the record…..he would prefer I go away for the weekend and do something fun than to take the kids away alone. Clearly this needs to happen for soooo many reasons.
If he tries to wiggle out of this there will be some major damage done with the kids.
ANd……just to be clear…..life between he and I is not so pleasant right now. We are cordial and he is sad…..but I am in a big self protection, move on mode. He may be taking advantage of the situation…..but that will be his own undoing. I really can not control what he does. And when I try to I get myself into the state I was in last week. Me, me, me right now.
Hi All –
Can anyone give me some advice on how to go for weeks without bringing up the OP? Has anyone done this, and if so, what does it do to the relationship. I cannot seem to go more than 4 days, 5 at the most. Can’t make a full week. This is very distressing to me.
I haven’t been able to go more than a few days! It’s raw and it hasn’t been over, so discussions for myself and my husband are unfortunately frequent and sometimes brutal. If I let my emotions hide about what I am feeling about the affair, I end up blowing up in two or three days. I just can’t bury them far enough to stop them from surfacing. I am going to my internist on Friday for a anti-depressant and we see the therapist on Thurs at 1pm. I am hoping for some insight on where we go from here. My husband works with the OP so, I found out thru his calander that he has a meeting with her alone in his office on Thurs. He doesn’t know I know I guess cause and he hasn’t said anything. Plus he has a sales meeting with her and other people all day Mon, Tues. He says he hasn’t talked to her, but my gut is telling me that’s not so. Part of me is tempted to just leave it alone and let him figure it out himself. Either he can’t stand to be without her, which at this point she will want him to divorce me, so I will know. Or, he will realize he wants to be with me and finally end it himself. Not sure he is strong enough to do either of those things. I think he will string us both along until, either she blows a nut and says she wants to see the divorce papers or I blow and just file mysself. I have been pulling away emotionally since this last encounter with her. I just don’t beleive what he says, good or bad now. I have a bad feeling that things are going to come to a head once again.
My 5 y/o asked me today about a friends daughter. She wanted to know if she was coming to dinner with us and I said know she is at her real mom’s house. She questioned what I meant and I told her that the girl’s dad was married before marrying my friend and had the girl with this other woman, then they got divorced and he married my friend and had two other kids with my friend. She said “What’s divorce, mom’s and dad’s still stay together right?” and I said no they don’t live together anymore and are not married to eachother anymore, but if they have kids they share them and spend time with them, but not all together. She was silent. She knows somethings up and it is killing me. Killing me. She wanted to know why the girl had a bedroom at my friends house and I told her because she lives part of the week there and part of the week at her mom’s, so she has two bedrooms. Silence again. I am so sad and angry that my poor innocent kids are going to be destroyed by their own father and his mistress. What on earth did I ever do to deserve this hell? Sorry, just sad today. Thanks for listening. MS
To Jessi – yes, I went through several months of his not being able to put his disappointments and disillusionments about our marriage behind him – the most upset I have EVER seen him in 40 years (including even when his mother died) was his saying that no matter how he tried he could not put all the sadness behind him – he said he saw sadness wherever he looked – in her because he had stopped their physical relationship and had told her he didn’t plan to leave me and he knew he was letting her down, in me because of how he had betrayed me, in himself because of what he had done, in us because we let our marriage get to this point, etc. – all I can say is that I waited it out and it went away – he “lost it” completely at the end of June, crying, devastated, etc. and by August was able to say that his head was in a different place -if you ever want to see irony, watch the unfaithful spouse grieve because he was unfaithful – it’s quite disconcerting to say the least – I was also punished constantly for what I “did” and just couldn’t do anything right – the only thing that I can think of that changed this course was when I got angry at something he said to me (we were away on a trip with friends) and told him that I was angry and that I simply didn’t deserve to be treated the way he was treating me – within a week of that confrontation he was singing a different tune – still “connected” to her but was suddenly talking more about how he needed to extricate himself from his relationship with her and, most important, finally admitting that he had been horrible to me.
To Anonymous – I don’t have any advice, I still think about her a lot too – tough also because I see her around town – all I can tell you is to keep your eye on the prize – every time we make love I think “eat your heart out, OP, he’s here with me, not you” – for me, information is my way to control a situation so I have done a lot to find out about her – but – you have to be able to control your thoughts too and not get so caught up in her – remember that he did this and she was just the person he did it with – that helps to lessen her importance – she will always think that she is the “one” who made him cheat – but it’s not really true – there is nothing so special about her, despite what she says (or even what he says – my husband initially gave me the line that he has had many opportunties to do this and usually he could just turn away, but this time he just couldn’t – try listening to that!! Men are soooo self-absorbed!)- she just came along with the right combination of features at the right time – as I said, she can think she is the love of his life if it makes her feel better but she wasn’t and she isn’t – because if she were, he’d be with her – trust me on this because we have very very close friends who are now a couple and each one of them cheated on their spouse before they became a couple – and they have been together for over ten years – so I have seen with my own eyes when the affair partner becomes the permanent partner, so I know it’s possible – but it’s rare -hang in there, y’all, and be strong
MS…..so sorry for your pain. I can feel it. I think you are right in the fact that you will and do know what is really happening. But you also need to balance that (OK…almost impossible) with what is happening with you. I think there is such a seesaw for so long that it is hard to determine the pieces at any given time. Believe me…I’m not nearly as far as you toward the marriage and I am feeling it now. I don’t believe I will have a marriage. But then he says something/does something that makes me think we will. The fact is that they waiver in their own feelings and minds. It is up to us to decide what we want and will be most comfortable with…..and they are there, or not.
Oh how I wish that was as easy as I just said it.
Marlene……I feel like you are so the same as me, but stronger. But then again I am dealing with him living with the OP. I still look to you for advice, so keep writing. It helps.
Anonymous……I actually showed my h the note from you as I can’t seem to go an hour…let alone days or weeks. Of course, my situation is different, but I think that if you can stop yourself from bringing it up 3 out of 4 times that you really want to……that’s probably a really great thing. I truly believe it becomes the ‘topic of conversation’ because it is our lives, but that is not so healthy either. Don’t know that this is helpful. Especially coming from someone who is not so good at following through with her own advise.
But I keep saying it unitl I believe it. And sometimes I actually do it before I believe it. So much of it has worked for me. I’ll keep doing it. Until I am on my own or happily married. Obviously both are a long way off….but I am trying to accept the process without giving up on me and the influence I have on the process…in both directions.
God speed to all.
ok….hope i’m not boring…but another insight.
i want what is good for me. i don’t want the marriage we had……thought it was good at the time, but this has shown me how bad it was for me. not all bad……but now i know what i want.
he has shown me what could be…..through real changes and circumstatial maybes
i want that.
if he can’t provide it i’d rather move on and take the risk than to live knowing i settled for less than i have now realized i want and deserve.
the trouble is in the deciphering that picture.
looking forward to counseling…..hoping that this woman will be interactive and call a spade a spade. i need it.
this is probably not an ‘oh wow’ for most of you…….but i needed the clarity to say it. it seems to be very muddled in the day to day.
sorry for the ‘chat room’ punctuation……it’s easier.
Thanks for your advice Marlene. You sound like you have been through much of what I am going through. I have always had a gut feeling that this is a dark tunnel that we entered 2 1/2 years ago and if I just hang in there long enough we will come out the other end. I looked after an ill parent for 12 years as well as a young child and a couple of teenagers so I had to spread myself rather thin… he never told me that he felt like he was missing out. I guess I thought that as he was the other adult here he could see what was going on. Funny thing is he didn’t have the affair until most of this was over bit said he was really hurt. Maybe he is just using this to justify his behavior!! My h is an athlete and I think his affair is wound up in his self image now he is not performing as well in his sport because he is getting older. This mid life crisis thing is what keeps me there… I am sure he is an adreneline junkie and the affair fed this. So Marlene I will try your tact and just wait it out and build on the positive aspect of our marriage.
Sue … I also can feel so different from one day to another. Some days I am confident and strong and others I feel like ..to hell with all this life is too short to waste another day on him. I don’t think they can even comprehend what we are going through. Even if they are a little confused at least they have the luxury of knowing the truth of where they are at with the affair… ie still in contact with the OP or not.
I have gone a whole week without snooping, feel good about that. Putting a bit of normality back into my life. Told him that I am not going to snoop any more, sick of feeling guilty about doing it. If he is still contacting her and seeing her, he can have that on his consceince at least I know I am not doing the wrong thing.
The thing that I have to come to terms with is that I would do things very differently if I was the one who had the affair, but he is not me and I just have to look at the little things that he is doing to move in the right direction.
Hang in there everyone and thanks for your imput it is all very helpful.
Hi all!
Just to let you know, I have not brought up the OP in a while now, and my husband has been in a better mood and more attentive. I am still at that ambivilant stage, not knowing if I want this or not. Not knowing if I am only staying married to him for the kids (I think it’s a huge factor). We are supposed to attend a Superbowl event and I am a tad nervous about it becuase last year the OP was there! And, I had no clue they were having an affair at that time. Looking back, I think they had been starting to flirt, etc and it started shortly after. The possibility of her being there is very low, since he told her never to hang out there again, but she could be bitter since he broke it off with her (again, so he SAYS). I am so afraid of my reaction if she does show up to this party. But, I have every right to be there and want to show her how confident I am, and how much she doesn’t effect me. Any advice if she walks in the door?
To Anonymous – here is what I think – first of all it would be best if you and your h planned what to do if she shows up – secondly, if she walks through the door – if I were you, I would try to get myself above it all and rather than give her a fearful or nervous or even angry glance – try to give her a blank look – if you are forced to say hello because it’s awkward not to do so, say it but as if you were speaking to a stranger – not angry, not cold – but neutral and uninterested – my h and the OP do not know that I know what she looks like and think I only know her name – so around the time when he made his intial break with her, and even in the summer when their “friendship” was getting shaky because she was being demanding and he was figuring out that he really wanted me and our marriage, we had to attend a town concert and of course she was there and of course she made sure he saw her – I found out later from him that he was so nervous about what might happen that he almost played sick – then a month or so later, when it was over, he didn’t want to go to another event and take the chance that she would be there and come up to us! Interestingly enough, I don’t think he was worried about what I might do or say anywhere near as much as he was worried that she would come up and basically force an introduction – so the funny part is, if there is any humor in this, that I don’t need to have her pointed out – this is a huge secret of course but it allows me to be more comfortable when I encounter her – the reason I am telling you this is that I think your h may be nervous as well and you may want to sit and talk about it – practice in a mirror (I am not kidding) looking at her as if she were dust or invisible rather than glaring at her – a huge piece of my situation was taking my own power back and not giving her any – she thought she was a pretty powerful force and for a great while she was – but she knew when it was slipping away and she showed her true colors – within the space of three months she went from begging and pleading him not to cut off their friendship to calling him every name in the book because he was decisive about doing so – the message was that “I can be sweet and loving as long as I am getting what I want” – not exactly the foundation for a good love relationship – so if it helps think about it in a power way – good luck!
I just thought of something that I wanted to share with the group because you are the only people that can understand how I felt when I saw this – I was in the store looking for a card and saw this collection of cards with big long messages on them – I believe the company is “Blue Mountain” – the messages are not poems but are very schmaltzy, etc, and have an author noted – now this display was annoying to me anyway because back when my h was still in contact with the OP I found a wallet card that she had given to him in his wallet all about how grateful she was to have him in her life, etc. – it really was something you could give to a very good friend not just a lover but to give you a sense of her emotional maturity level, she signed it with her name and drew a little heart next to it – like we all did in 7th grade – mind you if I did anything like this my h would make fun of me but I am sure it was okay for her to do it – anyway among these cards there were several with a “someday we’ll be together” kind of theme – I read a few and one of them actually says something like “I know you are trying to do the right thing now but am waiting until we can be together and be happy, etc.” – now doesn’t that sound like something you would send to your lover as you are waiting for him or her to get out of their situation so they can come and be with you? I felt that it is kind of a slap in the face that now they even have cards for this kind of thing!
Hi All!
Marlene – yes that’s what the card sounds like. Speaking of cards, my husband confessed that for his birthday, the OP gave him a card, and I asked him where it was, he said he left it at her house. (convenient). To this day, I want to know what that card said, I want to know if it was one of those long, drawn out love cards, etc. I am sure it was. IT makes me SICK to think about it. Someone else giving MY husband a card.
I am in such a funk lately, quite a depressed state about the affair and I think I am leaning towards leaving. It’s the worst feeling in the world. I never dreamed this would ever come to this. Last night I cried for hours about the feeling I had on our wedding night and I couldn’t bear to think about it. I was SO happy that night and looking back, I could never imagine 10 years later he would cheat on me and profess his love for someone else. I also can’t think about the night our children were born and how much I loved him, and thought he loved me. I was reading something that said, “If a spouse cheats, they cannot truly love their spouse becuase love means respect” Do you agree with this? Do you think they panic when they are caught only becuase they are going to lose their WORLD (package deal: kids, house, etc). Do they really LOVE the person they cheated on? Some say, yes, they can. I am finding it so hard to process to and deal with. I say, no you can’t. I think my H has more remorse for how his cheating effected HIM, instead of ME.
any thoughts welcome.
Hi Liz – I hear you about the birthday card – the way I confirmed my suspicions about my husband’s affair was finding her valentine’s card to him in his briefcase – I still know what it said word for word and that was almost a year ago – he doesn’t know this because I refused to tell him how I “knew” – I told him it didn’t make any difference and it didn’t – after reading that card and reading some of the things he wrote to her, I can tell you a few things that match up with what I have read in books – they ARE living in a fantasy world and they are NOT thinking of the natural consequences – she told him that she was upset about what he might be doing with me for valentine’s day because after all they were the ones who share the love and the passion and couldn’t even be together – if it wasn’t me and him who were involved I would laugh – or vomit. In the email she sent after he broke it off with her she definitely told him that he wasn’t in love with me – that he just didn’t want to give me and our marriage up because we had been together for so long – and of course that is part of the whole picture, how could it not be? But here is the way I think about it – if he really thought that this was the woman of his dreams, as uncomfortable as it would be, he would have gone to her – she certainly wanted him – again the reason I think this is that one of our best friends divorced his wife after 25 years to be with the affair partner – maybe there was no reason other than fear of change or laziness for my husband to stay with me, maybe not – but the ingredient you may be missing is their selfishness – yes, your husband is more concerned about what this did to him than to you – mine was as well for awhile – more than anything they need to develop the empathy for what they did to us – if you don’t mind be being crass, they need to get their heads out of their backsides – the whole affair thing is so tied up in selfishness – “I feel bad about myself and this makes me feel good, even if it hurts you and so because I do still care for you, I will protect you by keeping it a secret” – that is the bill of goods they sell themselves. The thing is – my husband was incredibly selfish, short-sighted, unrealistic, etc – but only I can decide if that was BEHAVIOR or that was CHARACTER – and only you can decide what the cheating meant for your husband and what it means about how you feel about him.
… so funny what you wrote about cards…my spouse sent seven e-cards to the OP in just one day… things that were never said to me were abundantly said to the OP… it hurt a lot to see that, in our marriage my spouse just complained about everything and to the OP there had been spent all the time and money that lacked in our home to the care of our 3 children… felt like garbage…funny too what you said about your wedding, i still can?t watch the DVD… it took 10 years too to destroy that dream… what to do? it can be fixed? will i ever feel ok again? these are million dollars questions.
Marlene, they say there is a hallmark out there for EVERY occasion, why not a cheater and his mistress!!!! I totally think that affairs are so prevalent these days because of television shows, movies and how the media portray them. Look at every tv show that’s on these days. I didn’t realize it until my H and I were watching tv one night and every show we watched had some kind of infidelity in it! Either past or present. They romanticize it sooooooo much. Make it this gut wrenching issue, and make the spouse out to be this horrible person, like “why wouldn’t that guy/girl cheat” I am totally disgusted! As, for the cards, letters, emails, even verbal promises my husband gave the OP, I keep telling myself, they were just words, just words, because he is still with me and if he meant all the things he said and promised her he wouldn’t be here. I have given him EVERY opportunity to hit the road and be with her. Actually, packed his stuff the last time! He always begs to stay and says he can’t imagine life without me and the kids everyday. So what does that say about what he told her in the heat of things? I say yes, he should have thought about that before he did this in the first place, but for those of us whose husbands are sticking it out, I say even if they still miss the OP or whatever, if they are here with us, then what we have must be stronger than what they felt for the OP or they’d have been gone when we confronted them. Either that, or they are all frickin cowards! Maybe I am disillusioned. I don’t know. Stay strong. MS
Hi All!
Thank you Marlene, JMC, and MS.
Today, has been awful. I call it a “crossroads” day where you feel absolutely torn, and feel like you you don’t know whether to stay, or go. Yes, he’s DOING the right things, now, and notice I say DOING. Is it like the surface stroke? It’s like no matter what he does now, it doesn’t feel good enough. I just got off the phone with my friend, who has been amazingly supportive through all this and she knows my H and the OP. She said the second betrayal killed me, and I agree with her. At the time when I needed him and honesty and loyalty the MOST, he let me down. He kept up the affair. I think that is where his love for me will always be in question. Even if he does love me, and doesn’t love her, like he says he doesn’t (now), it’s so hard to think that your H could do this to you. I get more respect from the FEDEX guy at my work, than my own H. Again, I just had a conversation with him at lunchtime and he said, “I don’t know what you want me to do, I tell you I love you everyday, I am not going anywhere, blah, blah, blah” well, mabye I just have to accept the fact, that it isn’t going to be enough. Do I put a timeline on it, or like the therapist and my friends tell me, “you will just KNOW”. And, if all the horrible behavior doesn’t make me know it now, what will? Do I need a rock to fall on my head that says, “you won’t get over this!” ugh. Thanks for the input and understanding. We all have so much in common!!!
I also know a guy, who left one of my good friends for his affair parnter, came home one day, they have 3 kids and he said, “I don’t love you anymore, I am leaving you” he filed for divorce and married his affair. Well, the beauty of that one is, #1, my friend is totatlly over him, has a new boyfriend who is the nicest guy in the world, and #2, her ex got his affair partner pregnant, he lost his job, and they are now living in her parents BASEMENT with the baby! And, to top it off, he owes back child support, and he got a letter to appear in front of the judge. That, is the beauty to me that KARMA is possible. Don’t always see it, but boy do I love stories like that one! Ha!
Marlene – have you ever heard this from your H?
“I am sorry, I can’t say it enough, I can’t take it back, it happened, I can’t take it back!”…….then in the next breath, “but you have to come to a point where you have to MOVE FORWARD and accept what I did and not dwell on this everyday!”……just wondering, cause everytime I tell him how bad it has effected me, I get the above speech.
Oh my God! I have heard everything that Liz said her husband said almost verbatum, and Marlene I heard my H’s own version of what you said about, get over it so we can move on! Well, it’s pretty damn hard to get over when you’ve gone back and forth 7 times and made a fool of me 7 times, and deceived me 7 times and lied to me probable 10,000 times in the past year! So, how do I know that this last time he “talked” to her is really the end, just because he said so???? Well, frankly his WORD means NOTHING to me at this point. How sad for me to say that about my own husband. When will the trust come back? Who knows? Maybe never, but if that’s the case I need to end this marriage. This is my struggle these days. MS
A few thoughts from the one who’s h is living with the op. First of all…..that card is one I could give me h…how about that for a thought!
I saw my new counselor today for the first time and like her very much…it was sooo good and sooo needed. Even though it was mostly history taking, she was able to calm me in that time and make me feel able to stop pressuring myself to make a decision. That is a relief.
I think Marlene is particularly on the money about behavior and character. I struggle with a piece of that, but in my situation his behavior is so painful to us, but his character is what we love….don’t ask me to explain that one further under the current situation…..only that although it seems as if there has been no progress with our relationship, I, and probablyl more importantly, he feel(s) the change strongly. I still hold hope that this will pull us through.
Liz……I truly don’t believe that affairs often say much about how they feel about the other spouse (us). I really think it is a response to some crazy thing or combination of things that are happening for them at that time. I have had the respect line thrown at me a number of times by friends and it confuses me a bit. Although it is painfully clear that this behavior is completely disrespectful, I don’t think that has always characterized how he has treated me and in fact, does not characterize his every action now. And it does not mean I don’t respect myself..as so many think. It means, to me, that I respect marriage, family and the potential this relationship has…..and most importantly, the process (OK….working on that one). It is the ultimate betrayal and each person is different in their morals and belief systems, so each will respond differently to it.(the disrespect and breaking of trust)
I take the cards, gifts, time spent,as part of the ball of wax. When I get down (as I have been the past few days) it is because of the whole ball of wax. Sort of all or nothing thinking….not so good either. Of course, I’m not as far along as you are so I don’t know how I would feel if I had the opportunity to get there.
Liz….his exasperation is probably not a lot different from you feelings. They both come from not being able to control how the other one is feeling and wanting it to be better. I felt this today.
I spent the day nagging at my h like you wouldn’t believe. I just couldn’t stop the string of words that kept coming out of my mouth. All about this ski weekend thing. In the end I managed to shut him down entirely……..and get no results for me. Once I realized this and explained my poor behavior we had a much more productive and pleasant conversation…still don’t have what I want, but am much closer to a compromise that we can all be happy with and I’m not feeling like I want to crawl out of my skin.
Let’s see how I feel after the next conversation in about an hour. I swear I see him and talk to him more now that he doesn’t live here. The kids certainly do……..if we could just transfer the body and keep all the good energy…..
Yes I have heard the comment that Liz asked about – “I’m sorry but we need to move on” – that is basically because it makes them uncomfortable to think and talk about how devastating this is – the other thing I heard was that if I brought it up (how I was feeling about the affair and the OP) he would say that it was I who was “bringing her back into our house” not him – sometimes it has helped to suggest that they imagine themselves in our position and how they would feel – same with the trust issue that MS brought up – they say, “but this time I really mean it,” meaning they will not have contact or tell us if they do by chance, etc. Try the Dear Peggy site on the web because she does a good job of explaining what we need as proof and how we need it again and again – so does the book “After the Affair” because it talks about trust-building behaviors for both the person who was unfaithful and the hurt spouse. Here is a line from one of the books I read that I used: “if someone paid you once with a check that bounced, and then paid you a second time with a check that again bounced, would you accept a check the next time? what would you need to see or have the person do before you trusted that this check wouldn’t bounce?” To me, that explains why it is hard to believe them – I realize that this is a more personal issue than getting paid but it’s the same behavioral principle – they want us to have faith but our faith has been shaken badly.
I like the check….will use it.
Hi All!!
Well, big thing happend to us: the OP contacted my H on his cell phone and said she had something he left at her house, and wondered if she wanted to him to meet up with her so he could get it!! The last time they talked was September! (so he says). Needless to say, he told me about the call and didn’t respond. So…..I CALLED HER and said I could meet her if she wanted (I think she was stunned) and I was very pleasant on the phone! (wanted to rise above her!)and then my husband said, whatever she has, isn’t that important and it’s probably just an excuse to see me, so we both agreed I would call her back and tell her to forget the items and just “toss them”………so far, she hasn’t called again. It really upset me but I am trying to remain calm. Do you think it was an “ice-breaker” so she could see him, or do you think she really wanted to give him his things back? any thoughts welcome!!!!!!!!!!!
Hi,
I think the fact that she contacted him just put my emotions back to square one. I thought we were out of the woods with being done with the OP and here she comes, with an “excuse” in my opinion to see him. Everyone tells me (friends and family) that she’s trying to test the waters to see if he’s available again, etc….it’s sooo hard. I respect the fact that he told me she called, I respect that he didn’t respond to her, but it still feels like the “never-ending affair!”…..
also, he says I USE the affair now to have power over him, and I use it whenever we argue. He says “all roads lead to my affair”, and he has to be accountable for everything, and I do not. Again, Marlene, have you heard that one also?? ugh. I think I am staying in this for the kids, just don’t know how long I can.
Hi Liz – I think you handled it beautifully and I do give him credit for telling you – and for not answering – and it’s great that you both problem-solved this together – be sure that you reinforce that without making it seem so fabulous, if you know what I mean – it was the right thing to do, not an extra big favor, but he may need to hear you say that you recognize that he did the right thing for you and for “us” – no surprise she would give it another shot – and I do think that at the least it was an effort to tweak you and/or him – these chicks get really really angry too because they are soooo sure that they have this power over these guys – one thing my H said that does make sense is that he cannot be responsible for what the OP may do, only for what he does – now at first this was a bone of contention between us because he admittedly could not bring himself to be rude or cruel to this poor lady who was battling breast cancer and in the throes of a divorce, boo hoo – and basically I told him that his being nice to her was stringing her along – and I was right – after writing her a letter saying he didn’t want to see her she called him about 10 days later and he did answer – this was back in Sept – perhaps I should have just acknowledged that he told me but I did get angry and told him he should not have picked up – he gave the lame excuse that she called from a number that was not familiar and that he couldn’t be a “monster” and ignore her – that was when I knew we were still in jeopardy but he did write to her again and told her not to call – as I have told you, when they met by chance he stupidly followed up with an email still thinking this could all work – they have got to be able to see that what seems like cruelty to her is what they need to do for us. As for seeing everything through the lens of the affair, yes, I heard that recently from my H – when my son and I were talking about his relationship with his girlfriend and his supposedly platonic interest in another girl, I told my H that I was finding that topic very very hard to deal with – my H replied that we cannot always see everything through the affair – again that is, in my opinion, a defense mechanism – they do want to forget what they did and get it behind them – as far as being accountable? well once again let’s remember who bounced the check – as far as you being accountable – so far, you haven’t killed her or him or yourself (I reminded my H that people have died over things like this) so that’s about as accountable as you should be – a friend told me that in these situations you don’t have to account for anything you do for at least a year – you responded with dignity when she called and acted with dignity when you called her – you ARE being accountable! I know that my H’s OP believed (and hoped) that I would throw him out – because people always think that other people are going to act and react the way that they do – the second that his OP finally heard his rejection, she got ugly – as opposed to me who did not do so even though the reality was that his commitment, legally and ethically, was to me – the OP’s don’t like realizing that they were just not as important as they thought to our H’s, just like we don’t like feeling that we were not important enough to our H’s to keep them from cheating – that’s why it’s so important to be sure you find and keep your own power – in so many ways, it seems like it is our H’s choice – he can’t go wrong, either way he’s got a woman to love him, right? – that’s why you have got to make it YOUR choice to do whatever it is that you decide to do
Hi Marelene,
Just read your post, thank you!
OK, during the summer, the OP made a comment to my H, “you will never leave me” because of course, he kept going back to her! Now that he claims no contact since September, I think she is shocked. It makes total sense, he still continued to cheat with her even after I gave him legal papers so whey wouldn’t she think he would never leave? I think telling him that she had some things of his still (which I think was a ploy, this many months later she just stumbled upon it??)was a way to just “feel him out” and see if she could lure him back again. Yes, I agree that my H handled it well by not returning her phone call and telling me about it. And, I think she was shocked that HE told me about her call! That had to send a huge message that the secrecy between them is over. Now, if she calls again, I honestly don’t know what I would do at that point. As my therapist said, “on your end it feels like the never-ending affair!” and she’s right. I know he has no control, but it’s still horrible thinking another woman will go to any length to see your H! I think about the shoe being on the other foot. I think he would be enraged if some guy I had an affair with was still calling me!! He would not be “calm” like he expects me to be! But, I was proud and I handled myself with dignity. And by being nice to her on the phone (so hard..) I looked like the bigger person, by far. And, the therapist said by me not reacting and getting all upset over the call, gave my H food for thought. If I change, and become more confident about me, he will see this and according to the therapist he will look at me in a different light. He has already made comments that I’ve “changed” and I am such a “strong person”, etc. I think this also bothers him as he has always been a control freak. I think he could easily control the OP and it made him feel good about himself. She totally boosted his ego.
I am hoping she won’t be that brazen and show up at the Superbowl party tomorrow night but I won’t put anything past her at this point. I will try my ablsolute hardest to remain calm and confident! It’s just that I haven’t physically seen her since the affair so it might shock me unexpectedly. But, then again, she might be afraid to show up especially since he denied her call and gave it to me!! I’ll keep you posted!
Liz – I totally agree that once the OP realizes that your H has been telling you things about her and the secrecy kind of collapes, that is the sign to them that they are losing or have lost their grip – this was very well explained in the book “NOT Just Friends” – my H’s OP was furious when he told her that he had told me all about what happened when they saw each other one time in early August – they had met for coffee and to talk and she asked to kiss him and he said no – she followed up with an email apologizing and saying that she knew that the intimacy between them was over but did it anyway and knew he would reject her but was feeling like he didn’t find her attractive anymore, blah, blah – she said that telling me made her look pathetic – well, if the shoe fits – if this chick shows up at the party, just keep thinking what a manipulative and lame attempt she made to feel out where your H’s head is on all of this – and give her the attention she deserves, which is none – and although it doesn’t really matter, because he is with YOU, be sure you look good if for no other reason than it will give you confidence – good luck, I’ll be thinking of you..
Marlene-
Yes, I think it had to have blown her mind that he told me about the voice mail. She was probably hoping against hope that he would jump at the opportunity to meet her. I guess I also expected my H to act a little more “upset” about the contact. He didn’t seem too upset and I don’t know why that bugs me so bad! I just wanted him to show more anger I guess. Which of course makes me think that a part of him was glad to hear her voice? and I will never know what his TRUE feelings are about her. That’s the part that hurts!
Yes, I plan on going and looking my best and having fun. I hope she doesn’t show, but if she does, it will speak volumes of her intentions. He asked her never to go there again. (he also asked her never to leave a voice mail, and we see that didn’t last!)
Have a great weekend and thanks for your support on this! It’s so hard emotionally for me and nobody understands this better than you and everyone else!
Hi Liz… good luck with the Superbowl party, just remember you are a much better person than she could ever be. Hold your head high, she wears all the shame and guilt.
Marlene, thanks for your posts they are so helpful. I took on board what you said about characteristic and behavior. It has made me look at things in a different light.He has made a big mistake in the way he has behaved and this is not a characteristic of him. Things have been really good the past week. I have been focusing on me and stopped snooping through his things. This has given me a huge amount of freedom… didn’t realise how much time and energy all this was taking up. I don’t think he is contacting the OP. He seems more relaxed than he has been in years and is actually doing some things for himself. His life must have been awful… running around trying to have a secret affair and really not having any time to persue anything else he was interested in. If he is not seeing or contacting her maybe he also is experincing a new freedom as well. I guess I have just stopped playing his game and it is no fun playing on your own.
I have written a list of things I want to do this year and have started actioning some things, this came as a bit of a surprise to him…. think it made him realise that I can create a life for myself.
This change in the way I am looking at the situation is probably worth giving a try. It has made a big difference in just a week.I am feeling more positive about my life no matter what way it goes. So far this week he has been more affectionate, taken me to a concert as a surprise, spent a day just doing things we enjoy and he has been home from work early. I have felt comfortable with everything although I have moments when I feel anxious but I keep these to myself or share them here. I guess out of all that I have tried, giving up the snooping has been the best thing for me. If the affair is still going on I will eventually find out and will be just ready to move. He knows this is his last chance. in the meantime I am working on project fun!!
Take care of yourselves everyone and create something in your lives to look forward to. Even if it is just a walk in the park with a friend once a week.
I take a walk in the park a few times a week with a friend and our dogs. I don’t think I’ll ever be able to repay her for her kindness. It is a life saver….which, on many mornings, keeps me from crawling back into bed. Work does to, but the walks are better.
I had many happenings this week that two counseling sessions (indiv and couples) put together in a light that needed to happen. Your notes pound the point home even further.
First of all, the deadlines don’t work. They are false and therefore make it impossible to follow through despite the feelings leading up to them.
Secondly, and more importantly, I have been told (and was close to coming to it on my own) that this is like (if not actually is) an addiction. My h has to deal with his own issues on his own. I have to stop ‘helping’ him…..read enabling. He asks me to keep telling him what I think ‘it’ is, but then I am putting thoughts and ideas in his head that may not be true. I am not focusing on me. I am draining my energy trying to save him and our marriage in a way that might ultimately hurt it.
I think all of our behaviors…..which are totally justified, mind you…….tend to take the focus off of us (spying, wondering, etc.). When we can focus on us we are happier, they are happier and they find us more appealing. It all makes sense, but is oh so hard to do.
I am hoping that this new road will lead ‘us’ somewhere good. But, at least for now, I’ve taken the pressure off of myself to make a decision. That is a relief. I’m not great right now, but I feel on the edge of making another major step forward for me and that is better than making any step back.
He’s trying for himself and that keeps me ‘in the game’ for the moment. It all still hurts so much, but I am getting better at focusing on me in the now…not the past or the future. My slips seem to take less time to get out of. I wish they would just stop! I wish it would all just stop. But I do believe the light will continue to get brighter somehow on the whole. It may be very hard to see in the dark moments and days, but I will keep with this blog and the chat room….counseling and talking to friends…..until there is a resolution for me.
Many thanks to all of you for continuing to share. Selfishly, it helps me so much.
I agree with the addiction even my h has said that. I haven’t been able to get him to couples counseling and I have given up on suggesting it, I feel that he just needs to sort his own stuff out. My therapist told me that I am too good at fixing things for everyone and just to back off and give him ownership for what he has done. He will make the appointment when he is ready, maybe that will come when he is able to face himself.
My h has been out for the day with some of his friends, I have felt fine about it all day but for some reason I am feeling anxious now as it is nearing the time he is due home. I guess it is because this is when he would just add a bit of time to his outings so he could spend some time with the OP. I don’t know if I should say something to him or not. Maybe I should just say that I feel anxious when it gets to this time and can he think of any way to help me trough this. I guess these are the little things that need to be done to show me that things are different this time, otherwise again we are not communicating our true feelings.
You will have your good days and bad days Sue, just enjoy the good ones and don’t dwell on the bad ones.
Sue, Jessi, Marlene and All –
Wow, we all seem to be getting a little better with all of this. Yes, it is still VERY hard, and will be for a long time, but we all seem to have outlets that are helping us. For the first time, I have been working out. I think I mentioned I used to weigh 50 pounds heavier! My goal is to run a half marathon by next year. I would NEVER have done this, had my H had an affair. I think I started to exercise to let off “steam” and it worked! And…he notices big time that I am not curled up in a ball, crying over him. He got the direct opposite reaction – I took notice of ME and my health, and said to heck with the two of them (even though inside, I was dying….) Sue, I think i have become much more appealing to him now and I demand so much more respect. And he knows this!!
Jessi – I quit snooping also. I got to a point, where I just couldn’t care to do it. If I see obvious signs of cheating, then I will investigate further, etc. if my GUT is strong, I will check it out for my own benefit. So far, I haven’t had to do this. And it feels good!
I am starting to visualize two lives for myself: one with him, and one without him. I am trying to accept either outcome and know I can be happy on my own, or happy that he saw the light and decided to make this work with me and the kids. I think I am getting better prepared now because I put so much energy into obsessing about him and the OP, that I never gained any ground on my healing. Now, I look at the OP as an insecure, pathetic individual, whom I would never want to be in a million years! And…if she does go to the party tonight, you are right, I can hold my head up high. She looks like a FOOL!
Good on you Liz… I ran a half marathon last year for the first time and now got my sights set on a marathon. All that you said is so true. One thing we can thank the OP for is giving us the opportunity to become totally awsome people who are in charge of their own happiness while they hang around waiting for some guy to leave their family and all they have worked so hard to establish and live a half life(truth be known if they do end up together she will always get the blame in his mind for robbing all his securirty from him) . Rather be in my shoes. Out of the three of us in this triangle I would say I am in the best place because I know I will be okay with him or without him.They won’t even have the chance to explore themselves.
Have fun tonight you will radiate self esteme and shine.
Hi all – Liz, hope the Superbowl party was good. I did want to say something about the comment someone made re holding your head up high – ironically, when my h’s OP wrote him her last email (after he said he couldn’t ever be in contact with her again) she wrote that SHE could hold her head up high because she was ridding her life of toxic people and he had become one of them! She also made a comment about his manipulating her. Isn’t it interesting how she took zero responsibility? Talk about a defense mechanism ….
I am starting to pull away from snooping as well – you are all correct – doing that prolongs the obsession with the affair and the OP – I think that we do it to gain control over the situation because we lost so much control while it was going on – my therapist, whom I saw on Saturday, and I were talking about this and he talked about “acceptance” – he didn’t mean that anyone should tolerate an inappropriate situation but said that progress can mean that we can not only accept what happened but also that we are and will be okay no matter what happens.
As for the OP’s – I agree that they are probably less well off at the moment and that they have, in a very painful way, helped us learn some good lessons about ourselves, etc. According to my h, a couple of times when he was in the process of cutting her off, she offered to speak to me and to assure me that all she wanted to do was to be friends with him and that she wouldn’t threaten our marriage – he told her he didn’t think that would be a good idea – the fact that he didn’t take her up on that offer was probably the biggest shock to her because what she was offering was a possible way to continue their contact – when he refused the offer, it let her know that what he really wanted was to be totally free of her – that I think is the OP’s worst blow – because if our h’s did end up leaving us for them, the contact with us would have to continue in some way, due to kids, etc – at least for awhile – but the OP’s can really “disappear” from our husbands’ lives and basically have to in order for the marriages to survive – I don’t feel sorry for them – they took a risk and it didn’t pay off for them.
Sue – I found your comments re the deadlines interesting – I think the reason we set them is because we are just trying to look to a time when we are out of this pain – unfortunately it’s a process – I did set deadlines in my head and never shared them with him but since I was able to see progress as they approached I didn’t have to act –
Jessi – I also know that I am a “fixer” and it’s hard to step back and let them fix themselves, but we have to – the weird thing is that my h is a fixer as well! I can empathize with your feelings about being nervous when he was out – I am coming up in the next two weeks with the “anniversary” of my finding out and it is a difficult time for me because I have flashbacks – I am trying to dwell on how much better off I am now than I was a year ago when this was all hitting but I too have debated about telling him that I need some extra TLC right now – I am afraid that if I bring it up it will again seem to him like I am dredging up the past and not focusing on the present and future – any thoughts?
Jessi – good luck on the full marathon! If I make a HALF, I will be amazed. Ha!! It’s not easy! I my best friend ran her first full marathon, and I was there to cheer her on and it gave me inspiration. And, it was not even 2 weeks after I found out about the affair, so I really was in bad shape emotionally but watching her run made me feel like I could do it too.
Jessi – I think you are right that if they do end up together at some point, he will always view her as someone who ruined his life, family, house, security, blah, blah……they want these people for FUN! That’s what an affair is….FUN! NOT commitment, or they wouldn’t have an affair, they would just LEAVE in the first place. Sometimes I think they assume they can have BOTH for as long as they want (at least I think my H had this mindset….keep two lives going for as long as he wanted) but what they forget to realize is how many people they are effecting besides their spouse. The ripple effect is enormous! Then they have to get on the defense because they can’t believe thier little escapade caused so much damage due to their SELFISHNESS. At least that’s where I know my H is at….
Well, she didn’t show up at the Superbowl party after all. YEAH! I was ready and confident the whole evening. I think she was trying to test the waters last week by contacting my H and since I returned the call for him, it probably sent her the message that he didn’t want to see her or have anything to do with her. At least that’s all I can hope at this point.
I have a meeting with my therapist tonight because I am really in a bad place with her calling him last week. It confirmed all the fears that I had that she wouldn’t “give up on him” and just when I thought she was out of the picture, she emerged once again, 4 months after he told her never to call again! And, I don’t know if this was a one-time deal but now I can’t help think that she’s plotting her next move. UGH. The therapist says, “its all about her, and not your and your H” but even thought I know this, it doesn’t make it any easier.
Liz again – had a very bad phone call with my H. I told him I was very upset about the OP calling last week and he got very defensive. I told him that I thought the OP clearly didn’t get the message about no contact and I asked him if he could please make a conference call to her with me there asking her to NEVER call again. Well, he got all mad and said, “we need to let sleeping dogs lie!”…..and I said that didn’t make me feel comfortable. He said he would NOT make the call, and I could make it with the therapist instead of him! Talk about lack of support. I got upset and told him he “created this monster, etc” and he said, “guess I did!”…….then he went on to say that I can make a choice to “end this” (meaning the way the affair has effected me). I told him it’s not that easy when your ex-girlfriend calls 4 months later! UGH. I feel horrible, like he thinks I am over reacting and he has no patience with me. Which, makes it worse because then I get bitter that he just wants me to “get over it”!
Then he said, “what happened TODAY that was so bad that you had to call me during the middle of the day with this??” I said, “Iam calling you for SUPPORT becuase it upsets me!”
Instead, I get a defensive jerk.
Any thoughts?
Marlene – I know what you mean about the anniversary because about this time last year, I noticed things were bad and that’s when the affair was going on, or just starting. So, this time of year is very painful for me. And, my H thinks I should “LOOK AHEAD”…..they just don’t get it do they??
Glad all went well at the Superbowl Liz. The anniversary of finding out is always hard, mine is around Christmas so it always takes the shine off Christmas for me. Had a good session with my therapist yesterday.. we were talking about dealing with anxiety and how to let him know how I am feeling without making him defensive. She said when my head was spinning with all sorts of thoughts to go and sit somewhere by myself or go for a short walk and verbalise things out loud because that makes you put the thoughts into some sort of order. Had one of those moments when his cell phone bill arrived last night. He wouldn’t open it in front of me and he has put it away somewhere so I guess it had all the calls on it he made to her around Christmas time. I told him this made me feel anxious and that I hope he doesn’t have to hide the next one.
I managed to tell him that thhe times this happens are when he is within an hour of being due home from work or somewhere as these are the times he would see her as well as when the phone bill arrives. I also told him that as I am letting the wall down around me I am feeling more vulnerable. He tried to become a bit defensive but I just said that these are things I need to tell you, I am not asking you to justify what your every move today…. just listen. Gave him the cheque story and I think that helped him understand. When he left for work this morning he said I seemed a bit funny… I just said that I will be okay it is just a time thing.
Marlene, I to get the flashbacks but they are becoming less. I also find it hard to say anything about asking for any extra TLC what gets at me is that they caused all the pain and we are the ones that are treading on egg shells so as not to make them feel uncomfortable. Although things are not perfect I too am in a better place than this time last year, and the timeframe thing doesn’t work for me either. It is a process and you will only know the right time when it hits you without doubt.
The other thing that my therapist said is that I am so much further along this process than he is so as you say you just have to wait it out. A time must come when they start questioning themselves. Lets face it it can’t be that much fun having to be under so much stress to keep the relationship with the OP hidden and have someone demanding to see you in what little spare time you have and not having any time for yourself. After over 2 years this must be doing his head in as well.
Marlene it is hard focusing on the future when something brings up those emotions you felt when the affair was in full swing. Sometimes I just spend a couple of minutes writting down my feelings in a journal then put it away.
Thanks for your comments everyone they are very helpful.
Liz.. keep up with the training, it gave me so much confidence to finish the half marathon, I felt that I could get through anything.